THANK YOU MODDERS YOU HAVE FOOKED US ALL!

[Aameul]

Uh, Psyloche... the content exists on all forms of the game, PC, Xbox, PS2... if that's the case how does it require hacking on the level of putting together meshes and whatnot? Clearly this was something created at rockstar BY rockstar, thus they should bear the brunt of the blame for this debacle.

[Oddysee]

It's always the same tho', isn't it?... *sigh*
Someone saw something they didn't like, and blamed everyone else for it. No one would take blame, pushing it away as fast as they could, and in the end the house came crashing down.

The important factors have already been said. There's no point in arguing about fact.

Fact: no matter how badly done, it was part of the original game. No hacks. It was a locked feature that was already there. It was simply pulled appart before release, and thus looks like crap.
Fact: the rating system sucks. It's molly cuddling the nation(s) and ultimately only leading them into disorder.
If people are allowed to complain about every little frantic thing, because they can't cope with how the world is evolving, we'll never evolve.

No rating system will ever work tho'. It can't possibly.
The rating system is there, so that parents can see what their kids are buying. So they don't have to play through the entire game to see if it's bad influence, but simply check the marker. But regardless of what we change this too, the problem, really isn't with the rating itself.
It's with the parents. The people who so desperately try to prevent their 16-year-old kids from seeing nudity even tho' they've been masturbating for the better part of 5 years. They wont let them see violence even tho' they get in fights in school, watch movies and the news, and have a perfectly functional understanding of what it is. They wont let them swear, even tho' it's the only thing the kids do when they leave their house to go hang out with their friends.

The problem isn't ratings or explicit content. It's controll.
The sooner parents learn that they can't controll their kids... Merely guide them, the sooner we can get over all this nonsense about ratings and ba influense.
Honestly speaking. If your child has a fit and freaks out because they played a game with a gun in it, they'd never have survived in society anyway. Stop whining and let them live their life. Guide them, but don't hold their hand. They're beyond any parent's god damn controll. Just like they themselves were beyong their parents controll.
It's funny how fast people tend to forget this.

All these rules aren't serving life. They're restricting it. The ratings are fine, but seriously. Grow up. It's a God damn game. If you can't tell the differance, then you're the one with the problem, not your child.
Kids aren't as dumb as parents think. They can look after themselves. They don't blindly believe everything they see, and wont become drug dealers because they played a game. Even if they do make mistakes. We all did. You learn from your mistakes. You grow as a person by making mistakes, not by never making any. We've all slept with people we shouldn't have. We've all gotten in trouble with the law at some point in our lives, regardless of how minor. We've all gotten hurt, been sick and felt stupid. But we're still here. It's part of growing up, and the sooner the current parent generation realizes this, the sooner things like this will fade.

RR put some content on a game that they shouldn't have. But honestly, has it really changed anything? Has anyone's lives been altered in anyway? People need to get some hobbies, because this is hysteria. Nothing else. We have wars going on. People are dying. Yet we'd rather spend thousands of dollars and minutes arguing about a computer game. A game that doesn't even show you the offending bits. You have to go and look for them yourself. If you're looking for them, then you're asking for it. Don't blame them when you find it. They went looking for trouble. They found it. It wasn't given to them. The fact that they might have put it there changes nothing. It wouldn't have been shown, ever, if people hadn't thought "this might be wrong, but I'll do it anyway, besides, I can't be blamed!". It's like looking for fights in town, and then complaining when you get punched. If you don't like it, don't go looking. If you do go looking, don't blame anyone else for your inability to handle what you found.

Sometimes I wish the world would grow up... Or lie down and die.




Tm

[Gridfan]

And the hysteria is increasing!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22 ... 29609.html

Now The Sims 2 is being attacked!

[Gridfan]

(additional info related to the post above)

This is the guy behind most of the hysteria currently!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)

Aparently, if you commit a crime, and you say "videogames made me do it"
this lawyer will happily take your case and get you free.
(since when did blaming games free one self from crimes commited?)
I'm not sure wether actual criminals is worse or this guy,
read thru his profile and his cases, amazing he still has his lawyer license.

[Oddysee]

Damn that is some profile... I'm not one to submit to violence. It never solved shit, but here, is a man the world would be better without!
In full honesty, I hope someone shoots the bastard before he fucks anything serious up. The guy is dangerous.

He kind of reminds me of sect leaders. Zealous fanatics, hell-bent on changing the world to their liking. He needs a healthy dose of food poisoning, to be washed in liquids from the bottom parts of a female Gorilla, and pushed into a cage with a mating crazed male. If we're nice, we might include a blind fold.



Tm

[Gridfan]

"As long as humans can make the distinction between reality and fantasy, we're gonna be fine. If you don't want your kid exposed to it - don't get it for him. It's that simple. I think it's funny in this country that we get freaked out about sex, but violence is ok. You can cut off a breast - you just can't kiss it." - Bruce Campbell

[Gridfan]

A very (nay, I say great) article on violence and crime in regards to gaming.
http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm

Read this (it's just a long page, won't take long) and get some facts
about crime and gaming.
I found it a rather good view and a nice finger pointer at the media in particular.

[Psyloche]

cant wait until he see age of conan, that game funcom actually will ask for an adult only rating(if i got it right), and can be on border of being illegal in germany and some other countries...

my wiew is this: if you alter the games code, it is no longer same game shipped by the devs. The problem is, the action replay device is a sofisticated game hack device, the later version support so sofisticated features it make the users have better control than GM's in some games.
when DVD jon hacked the dvd format, he also opened for library ripps ala auno and aodb to be done, and that open for ppl with an receipe to hack and replace running program elements with anything they want(thats what action replay is made for), altering numbers, database references, levels, anything.
It acheive this ability by reprogramming the game machine OS and game code with hacking progams built in action replay, so, do that count as "intended by devs"?

[Tarryk]

cant wait until he see age of conan, that game funcom actually will ask for an adult only rating(if i got it right), and can be on border of being illegal in germany and some other countries...

Actually they're shooting for an M rating, to my knowledge. There will likely be near (but not full) nudity and tons of gore.

It acheive this ability by reprogramming the game machine OS and game code with hacking progams built in action replay, so, do that count as "intended by devs"?

I think you have one point mistaken: The devs DID write the code. The entire sequence in question was written as is, ON the disc, it was not designed by third-party hackers -- it was simply GOTTEN TO by third party hackers who cracked the "code" to access the minigame. The devs wrote the minigame, and put the minigame on the disk. Therefore yes, it was certainly intended by devs, to use the quote.

[Boinky]

And here when I heard it was getting an AO rating I thought that was good

[Gridfan]

Yeah that made me crack up at first too!

GTA: San Andreas getting a AO ranking? Oooh, hope that mean royalties for Funcom

[Kryat]

GTA: San Andreas getting a AO ranking

why would they give san andreas a adults only rating there just all pissed off just cause it shows sex and drugs in it omg they had that in vice city man its just crazy

and yes i got tha joke with AO royalties lol

[Psyloche]

japan put 18 years age limit on gta3.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/25 ... 29701.html

House Resolution 376, an investigation on take two interactive and rockstar to find out if they decived the rating on purpose, and its possible they can be penaltied somehow if they are found to committing an fraud.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/25 ... 29723.html

[mijk]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... et_to_hell

Nuff said on that topic. =D Maddox is a deity!

[Oddysee]

I actually find Maddox rather annoying. He tries to be offensive and in-your-face but somehow, he just comes out... Well, lame.
Sure he's a laugh once in a while. Everyone is, but he's just trying a lil' too hard to be funny and alternative. Pretending not to care. Everyone cares, it's a fact of life. If we didn't care, we'd not go through so much trouble and effort to tell everyone we didn't care. It's all an image, and he chose a bad one... But to each his own...



Tm

[Tarryk]

*steps in, waves a wand of power, large explosions ensue*

A flaming, degrading, offensive, downright mean post was here only a moment ago, it has been nuclear-nerfed. Beware of fallout. Duck and cover. Do it again and I'll show you what Maddox and I have in common.

[Nexeus]

Okay, didn't realize how fekking crazy this post would get, and part of the reason I didn't post to it was because it kinda got derailed on the contraversy that 'cause the mass hysteria.

Lemme backtrack and start from the original thought of this. Yes Rockstar is at fault for what happened in their game, yes the ERSB system is foolish to an extent, and yes people are over reacting because they have nothing better to do.

But this topic goes back to a deeper subject, and to the link that I posted (btw Griddy posted it again on pg 2) about the nude patches in the Sims 2 and how someone is suing over that. Nude patches in Sims has been long known and done, so this doesn't surprize me as much about the patch, but the lawsuit.

My bigger frustration to modding is this... where must there always be a fekking nude patch? I mean okay, at one point a nude patch here or there was cool, interesting, and albiet nice, but now there's always a push by modders, to make a game more nude-tastic. Take for example Neverwinter Nights. There are a few nude patches in the game, some are tasteful (nude patches with tattoos which if your playing an elf, works for "character development". Then again its not an MMO, so you are in it just for kicks), but there's also patches to make breasts jiggle more >.<

Another "patch" that we all know and love was the AO Nude patch, which I did have, and try out, and then take out. The patch was nice and all, and when your with a person/relationship with another player, yes it can add to a few things - but I incerasingly became annoyed with it, I began to feel as if "yay, nudity, now what?" And I began to wonder, why there was only a nude patch, and not more effective tools like Clicksaver, or AO Scripter?

Maybe I'm becoming older, wiser, or what ever the fuck you want to call it, but I'm really getting pissed at all of these mods that push for sex, and not for adding better functionality to the game. Yes there are a tons of mods that add features to NVN, the other PC GTA's, etc... but damn can't you think of something more than just some of these half ass mods? Rather than making a patch to show nude skin in AO, the Clicksaver project is no longer supported by Gnarf, why not someone pick that up?

Rather than pushing for p0rn modders (which I bet 90% are guys), push for mods that ADD to the game, not ADD to a cupsize.

[mijk]

Well you are fighting a lost battle. And I feel maddox points the finger better when he directs it at those people who uses it in their mass hysteria. This is the age old debate about sex and violence and videotapes. computer games have become the new scapegoat.

You have to go through pretty much tech dabble to get a nude patch to work. And I am fairly certain that those persons are able to get porn anywhere anyhow. Patching a pc game (console is far worse!) is similar to operating a torrent tracker page. And if you have the hardware to patch a console game you suery have a computer to download your porn on.

But why must they make them? Well theese are the lesser modders that make up the bottom of the barrel but still are part of the community of sorts. Because they download and use other peoples skins and help distribute them. So they support the skinning community. But you can just choose to ignore them. I feel that it is the people in charge of the judge jury and executioner who is the one really at fault for makin such a big case over it when it's really a harmless pixel mutation.

I don't have kids I will grant you that. But I have been around computers since I was one myself. And sex games on the c64! OMG! That was like the stuff of legend. And I used to play it while I was... well... never mind..

It's just that we need to start objecting ourselves. We are almost the parent generation ourselves and many of us probably already are. And would you react like this if your kids played ao and installed a nude patch? Or similar to their gta's? I hope you would just giggle, like if you found a secret porn stash. And not go all apewire and hold a family court marshall.

If you need someone to blame I say fekk the politicians and fundamentalists.

The others are just kids playing around. Let them be.

[Psyloche]

well, after hours with wrecking police cars one can enjoy an sex scene as idiotic as the one in "team america" animation movie, turning police to pancakes is ok for teenagers, dolls having sex with clothes on isnt, an odd piece of morale maybe...

Latest news is australia have forbidden the gta SA game totally now, good take two is an gigantic company, if an small company as funcom lost so gigantic summs, maybe they would soon be broke.

[Darth Bootay]

/sigh

What a load of bullshit.

First of all, GTA is a game that openly allows the player to steal cars, kill people, rip off hookers and do all sorts of "socially unacceptible" things. What's a little nudity and sex on top of that? Personally, I feel the main thrust of the game (pardon the pun) should concern people far more than some mod that lets you take a pixellated hooker's clothing off.

Now I understand that people don't want their kids to see naked chicks. But really, these same people aren't raising any objection to their kids playing at killing people and stealing cars. They don't have a moral or ethical leg to stand on. It's just another case of the assinine overlitigious American breeder in action.

People can whine all they like about how little time they have to oversee what their children are doing and viewing, but it doesn't change the bald fact that if you don't have the time to check out what your kid is watching, playing, wearing or listening to, you shouldn't have squirted the little sucker out in the first place, because you're not parenting. Period. Checking a rating on a video game isn't parenting. Taking fifteen to twenty minutes to sit down with your crotchfruit to play the game with them IS. And what's fifteen to twenty minutes in your week? If you can't spare that, you DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO RAISE A CHILD.

You know what all of this is? It's complete bullshit. It's abdication of responsibility. It's literally an admission that you're not a parent, you're a fucking landlord to a minor who happens to share DNA with you.

If you don't like what I've said, or if you find it offensive, I'm not sorry. It's something that REALLY needs to be said. People need to quit blaming everyone but themselves when their kids get into something they don't like or think isn't appropriate for them. They need to take a long, hard look at THEMSELVES and ask "Am I being a good parent? Am I involved appropriately in my child's life?"

I've done this and found the answer was "no." I'd make a lousy freaking parent. But the shitty thing is, while I faced that fact and opted not to have children, the majority of parents are worse than I would ever dread being and don't have the balls or the integrity to look at themselves and say "Damn. I'm not a good parent." much less do anything responsible or constructive about it.

And coming full circle, what nitwit is going to buy a game all about stealing cars and killing people to a kid under 18 anyway? If you're going to do that, why bitch about sex and nudity? Is nudity and sex worse than murder and theft? Get your fucking priorities straight. And STFU and grow up, please.