Terry Shiavo: Am I the only one confused?

[Darth Bootay]

Okay, if it is 50% or better chance that recieving therapy would restore this woman to a semblance of sentience with any reasonable quality of life... Then it is a criminal act to deny her that therapy and that chance.

HOWEVER - if there is very little or no chance of ever regaining sentience, it is cruel and disgusting to force this form of undeath on the poor woman.

If what some of you are saying is true, and the woman's husband is denying her family visitation rights and is preventing them from and himself denying her a therapy that can or could have resored her to even a vague semblance of health, he deserves to be criminally tried for attempted murder or at the very least criminal negligence and neglect. If it is true that she shows every physical indication of having sustained injuries consistant with domestinc physical abuse, he should be criminally tried with aggrivated assault and attempted murder. In any event, if even a little of this alleged behavior is true, her family should have been able to wrest power of attourney from the man and take responsibility for her health and welfare.

In any event, the federal government has no business getting itself involved in this matter, ESPECIALLY in enacting an anti dying with dignity law, which at this point in time is only adding insult to this poor soul's injury. I find this response to be dreadful beyond my ability to adequately express.

It is things like this that make me fervently hope that I am grieviously wrong and that there is a God, so that the people responsible for this kind of misery and suffering will find their eternal reward awaiting them in pain and misery of their own and so that those who have known nothing but pain and misery at the hands of the heartless will know some measure of peace and joy after their trials and sufferings end.

[Aameul]

It is appalling that the federal government intervened in this case. Due process was served, time and time again, by the Florida state government. States rights are being abused and a man's right to look after his wife's wishes are being trampled simultaneously. Once again, the Republican party has betrayed its traditional conservative roots in favor of the evangelicals.

People who are saying that she's going to starve to death really haven't seen it happen. My mother has. My grandmother died because she reached a point where she decided she had had enough and did not want to eat anymore. She was over 90 years old, had very bad alzheimers, and had multiple bad falls in the last few months of her life. There was no enjoyment left in her life. She couldn't even remember her children anymore. She could barely move and barely eat or drink. She could barely see or hear. She told the nurse one afternoon "I think I've had enough" and a day later she stopped eating. My mom was informed but decided that we really shouldn't intervene. Had my mom put her on a feeding tube, sure, mayb my grandma could've survived another couple months, a year, whatever... but why? What really is the point? My mom was there at the end for my grandma and it wasn't torture. It wasn't painful. It was a slow slip into the long sleep.

[FoxyJama]

My great grandmother (also an Alzheimer's patient) was also lucid enough in her last moments to ask not to be force fed anymore. I did watch her go, and it was peaceful enough. However, she had also made a choice to leave that way, and her body had deteriorated to the state where going without food was a quick and relatively painless process, as she was gone within 2 days. Obviously Terri Schiavo is (physically) in much better condition, as she has survived 6 days without a feeding tube in the past. Because her body is still young it would react very differently to starvation than a 90 year old. Starvation when you're old, weak, feeble, and barely holding on is one thing. Starvation when food is the only thing you need to stay alive and your body is in otherwise operative condition is very different. Likewise, there is a lot to be said for making the decision yourself that you're ready to go, and having that decision made for you because you're incapable.

There was a clip on this case on the Daily show last night that was actually quite amusing.

[Evihack]

Its illigal to starve a dog, but its not to starve her......not friggn right

[Maephina]

Its illigal to starve a dog, but its not to starve her......not friggn right

Amen...what's even worse is Scott Peterson got the death sentence right.
He stands to get better treatment from the state than Schiavo does.
That makes me sick honestly.

[Evihack]

He haves more power then the parents...whe made and rased her, in a way she is a part of them.The laws are messed up

[Tacz]

I was watching International NewsFirst, and they interviewed two doctors, and one doctor said that she was in a vegetative state, and the other disagreed. But, they both agreed that she shouldn't be killed yet, because they have NEVER PERFORMED AN MRI SCAN TO FIND THE FULL EXTENT OF HER DAMAGE. To me as well, that's reason enough to keep her alive.

[Switchfront]

*Wonders why all this commotion isn't brought up for the other thousands of people in the same state of being as her..*

[Aameul]

I was watching International NewsFirst, and they interviewed two doctors, and one doctor said that she was in a vegetative state, and the other disagreed. But, they both agreed that she shouldn't be killed yet, because they have NEVER PERFORMED AN MRI SCAN TO FIND THE FULL EXTENT OF HER DAMAGE. To me as well, that's reason enough to keep her alive.

That's because she had electrodes put into her head as part of an experimental procedure to promote nerve growth. If they performed an MRI, the superhigh magnetic field would cause the electrodes to start rotating, shredding the brain tissue and completely destroy her brain.

Oh and by the way the parents AND the husband both wanted this treatment. It was considered her best hope for recovery, and it's quite obvious it has failed.

He haves more power then the parents...whe made and rased her, in a way she is a part of them.The laws are messed up

You know what? If I get married and my wife ends up like this, I sure as hell hope that I have more power in the situation than her parents. It's not messed up. It's called MARRIAGE. A husband will know his wife far better than a parent will at that stage of life in a vast majority of cases. Hell, I'm 26 and I still live with my parents, and there are people I know over the internet who know me better than my parents do.

But that's all beside the point. The real point of the matter is that she did not want this to happen. She didn't want to be on a feeding tube or on life support. Her husband says so. Her friends say so. The courts agree that there's been sufficient proof. There's a reason why all of the appeals have gone against the parents.... that's because her husband has proven that she didn't want to be kept alive in that sort of state to pretty much every court in Florida. SHE wished to die rather than be like this, and her husband is trying to carry out her wishes. It's the inability of her parents to just let go and realize that thier child has been dead for 15 years that has turned this into such a mess.

As for the OH BUT SHE'S STARRRRVINNNNGGGGGG crowd.... how else would you prefer she die? A gunshot to the head? A lethal injection (which, by the way, is a far from painless way to die)? 49 states (Oregon being the lone exception) have ruled that a doctor-administered lethal injection is illegal.... laws supported by the same people arguing that she's being treated so poorly. Well, if assisted suicide were legal, she could die quickly and painlessly.

As it is, she has been on a morphine drip for several days now to numb any pain she might have been in, so she will die slowly and painlessly. Hopefully in the last few days her parents will come to grips with her death before she finally passes on.[/quote]

[Vallikat]

You know what? If I get married and my wife ends up like this, I sure as hell hope that I have more power in the situation than her parents. It's not messed up. It's called MARRIAGE.

Amen, brother. Marry me?


Seriously, though. Thanks for being the voice of reason.

*Heads off to work wondering why it just seems wrong to have said that to Aameul*

[Tarryk]

Media hype on the same rotating Door of Feces that happens every time someone goes into a vegitative state. For some reason the news decided america was ready to go nuts about this scenario, so they picked one to cover. They were right, america went nuts.

Far as I can figure, a vegitative state for an excessive period of time means one of two things:

A) They cannot think or feel anything, in which case they might as well be dead, pull the plug.

B) They can think and feel things but cannot do anything about it, in which case they want to be dead. Pull. The fucking. Plug.

I'll be approaching my parents this week to make sure they don't turn stupid on me if I end up in such a state. Because anyone actually WANTING to keep someone on the machines when vegitative for that long is NOT thinking about that person. It's selfish and blatant stupidity, hands-down, don't even bother arguing it.

This person's parents have the combined IQ of a bag of yeast and enough self-righteousness to make me puke.

[FoxyJama]

Media furor or not... the coverage of this case has done a lot of good.

Honestly, if even one of us was reminded to talk to our families about our wishes and PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER, this whole discussion was worth it.

I sat down with my parents AND my husband this weekend and we all signed paperwork for one another stating our wishes regarding life support, organ donation, and full body donation. My mother and my husband both weren't aware that I wanted to donate my body to the Health Science center, and now they are.

Even if that's all we are able to walk away from this case and its publicity with, it might be worth it if one of us is put into a similar situation. At least our family members are now well informed and not going to be put through a costly and emotional legal battle to determine what our wishes are.

[Tarryk]

VERY good point, Foxy.

Awareness is much higher now, and a lot of people are having that sit-down with their families.

That's a good thing.

[Aameul]

Media hype on the same rotating Door of Feces that happens every time someone goes into a vegitative state. For some reason the news decided america was ready to go nuts about this scenario, so they picked one to cover. They were right, america went nuts.

I disagree. I believe that the reason this became such a huge issue was the bitter family feud between the husband and the parents. This whole mess? It's not about Terry Schiavo anymore. It's about her parents vs. her husband. If, like most reasonable families, they could have come to some consensus about the issue, it wouldn't be in the media. The media has, to be sure, played it to the hilt, but the root cause is the acrimonious family relationship.

[Tarryk]

I disagree. I believe that the reason this became such a huge issue was the bitter family feud between the husband and the parents. This whole mess? It's not about Terry Schiavo anymore. It's about her parents vs. her husband. If, like most reasonable families, they could have come to some consensus about the issue, it wouldn't be in the media. The media has, to be sure, played it to the hilt, but the root cause is the acrimonious family relationship.

The main reason I stick with my guns on this one is because this exact same fued has happened a milllion times already and made only little-to-minor news each time, and the press just clicked on this particular one to cover and launch into the stratosphere. Right time right place to get a reaction out of american media's children. American Idol, Survivor, and Michael Jackson In Court were getting boring, this is something a little more tangible for people to debate about for a few weeks.

[Tristalyn]

She passed away if it hasn't already been posted... and now her family isn't allowed at the burial It's a very sad situation, IMO

[Aameul]

She passed away if it hasn't already been posted... and now her family isn't allowed at the burial It's a very sad situation, IMO

Considering her parents have spent the last 10 years claiming her husband abused her when they weren't trying to take away his rights as a husband, I'm frankly not surprised he wouldn't allow them to be at the funeral. It's sad, but I can definitely understand the sentiment.

[FoxyJama]

I don't give a happy horse shit about how long they struggled with him, what their personal animosities are about this whole thing, or how long they were married (which wasn't long enough for him to exclude her parents from this decision). Nobody, and I mean nobody, should have the right to prevent parents from attending a burial service for their child. Michael Schaivo shouldn't have been allowed to attend before that happened. He wanted her dead, so he's obviously not grieving, while her parents are.

I sat down with my family and my husband this week and discussed this, and later talked to my husband about what would happen if they were to disagree with him about arrangements, and he said "They brought you into this world, it's up to them to take care of how you leave it if they choose to do so." I don't care how long I've been married, I love my husband very much, but my family is my family. My parents have known me longer than my husband. I just wonder if it's a cultural difference between areas of the country that people think that spouses should have the right to exclude family members from the grieving process when I consider that unthinkable.

[Otori]

Sat down and talked with Katie about a living will, and this is what mine is going to say:

Upon my near death or that my body is in a vegatative state, all efforts will be maintained to locate all or as many of the parts used to construct Robocop. Please contact Peter Weller and Paul Verhoeven to help with locating blueprints, spare parts, etc. to aid in the construction of turning my remains into a new, more powerful and efficient Robocop. Please feel free to use any, if not all of the 1.6 gig processor PC located in my studio (except the Santa Cruz Sound Card) to aid in the construction of this new Robocop. If these efforts fail, please contact George A. Romero.

In all reality, since when did the State of Texas or Florida start caring about somebody's LIFE so much?

[Boinky]

Heh Otori.

The only problem of a statement of what to do if you are in a vegatative state is thats part of the issue here. It's debated whether she was or not. And yes theoretically you might be incapacitated in some way without actually being truly vegatative I believe(though certainly not an expert).