Terry Shiavo: Am I the only one confused?

[Vallikat]

I'm not sure why this one woman has become such a symbol and why the decision as to whether or not to remove her feeding tubes has been so hotly contested.

As it stands right now, the feeding tube has been removed but the Senate has passed legislation that would require that it be reinserted.

My opinion is that if 15 years of medical tests have shown that she's in a persistant vegitative state, it's time to let her go on to her peace with the Lord. I have to believe that as difficult as a decision like that may be to make, I think if it was my loved one, I'd rather give them rest.

However, that's just my opinion. I can understand her parents wanting to see her continue and thus fighting on her behalf. Some people just can't let go.

On the other hand is her husband saying that Terry would not want to be kept alive like this. Some people say that he's only saying that out of his own selfish reasons because he's living with another woman anyway. Well the fact is, no one knows whether or not she wants to live like this or not. So what if he's being selfish? It's been 15 freakin' years!! I say it's time to let go, for everyone involved.

But that's not what has me mostly concerned. What I can't understand is why this has turned into a federal issue. I can't understand laws being enacted regarding this case. It frightens me that our government would get involved in such matters.

Anyone else find this bothersome?

[Darth Bootay]

I've always been more than a little alarmed at our central government taking more power into itself over personal matters involving my body, be it alive or otherwise. I don't even like it when the state government gets overly involved, though at least there I can vaguely understand a need.

I'm not really up on this individual case. Did she leave any written or legal documentation stating her preference? I'm assuming she's one of the many who never thought it'd happen to her and therefore neglected this very important detail. Not that personal wishes are considered when the federal government puts its almighty foot down on an issue.

For myself, I should hope that my relatives would have the good sense to allow me to die were I in a vegetative state for more than a year, legal documents or otherwise. For the love of god, it's worse than dead, and should they be so desperately attatched to my remains, they could have the good grace to inter them and visit them in a cemetary rather than the far more distressing environment of a hospital, where my body would have no dignity whatsoever. Leaving me in that state in such a place is IMHO a form of masochism on the part of the "dearly beloved" and sadism on the part of the law.

It is my fervent hope that when my time comes, my passing will be fast and clean rather some prolonged and hellish affair like that one. And I really, truely hope that it happens in such a way that the federal government cannot even dream of getting its filthy paws on it or me.

<utter disgust and a costco-sized case of the wigguns!!!!>

[Zephem]

Okay, here's from a Florida citizen.

What happened to the woman? She had an eating disorder. Apparently this created a chemical imbalance in her body, and it caused her heart to stop. She was without oxygen for a long enough period that she suffered serious brain damage. She is able to function in some ways. She can smile. She can laugh. It seems like she is ALIVE. People think about those with brain damage, and it's like, they're in a coma. They don't laugh and smile, they don't look around like they are aware.

Honestly, this is a family issue. The courts don't need to be involved in it. There is no written document that says that she wanted to be kept off life support if she was ever in that situation. There is only the husband's word. A husband that has already been with another woman, is trying to get married to her, and has two kids with that woman as well. He's trying to move on with his life.

There are arguments that he was abusive with Terry, and it might have led to provoking her body to initially have the problem which has brought her into the situation she's in now. There's no evidence for this, and the local courts have ruled it out in previous cases.

Has it already been mentioned that this has been in the courts for 15 years?

Honestly? The husband needs to sign power of attorney papers over to the parents, get his divorce, and be done with it. Let it be their problem. They are the ones who have been taking care of her over these years, and they've been more than willing.

In 2003, Bush (Jeb Bush, our governor here) passed a law that was called Sherry's law or something. It was specifically for her. It was deemed unconstitutional (which it was). The local congress has tried to get involved, and the state senate as well, but their efforts have been against the law. With the case itself, the courts have done exactly what they need to. They're going by the law. This woman has a right to die (although people are trying to make it a right to live).

For republicans, this is a major deal. I don't care if you are Republican or not. They hold power over the senate, the house, and the executive branch. If they weren't able to keep this woman alive (which through media exploitation has become the 'will of the people' apparently) it could be bad news when the time for re-election comes.

I'm very worried, though. This is beyond the bounds of the legislative branch of office. We don't make laws for individuals. This is against constitutional rights. While they might get this feeding tube back into this woman for a little while, I am hoping that the federal courts find the law once again unconstitutional and that it's thrown out and she's allowed to die.

[Tacz]

If I were in that state, I would also wish to be "unplugged," and I'm rather ashamed the the right, the wing of politics that I tend to associate myself with, saw the other way. But hey, every member of a party has their own individual beliefs.

Edit: I love you, Zephem. And I mean that platnoically... of course... (sorry, its just that my eyes bulge out of my head when I see stuff like that, and my brain goes click, and me starty laughy.)

[Zephem]

There, fixed it just for you Tacz.

[Nexeus]

The way I see it is pretty much like this. The mother is trying to hold onto her daughter, and trying not to let her go. I can go both ways with this... MOM SHUT THE FUCK UP! or MOM FIGHT YOUR FIGHT!

I understnad it's her daughter, and she was in a coma during a very intense accident, and when she first was in this coma, she was NOT responsive at all, it took them 15 years to get to this point, and her mother is hoping to dear God that she will have her daughter back to full health. No offense, but Christer Reeve had a better chance of walking, than this girl being able to entirely recover from her accident.

On the other side, youc an say that that husband is an asshole, and really doesn't care because he's with another woman (he could have had left his former wife because she's just a phychopath, but that's just me talking). And he's trying to move on with his life, start a new family, with new kids, and new life. That I DO understand (in a weird way it makes sense).

I think getting the government is bad, beacuse if I got hit by a car, and was in the same position, they aren't going to make Leo's law. Ontop of that, if I did get entirely hit straight on by a card, and died, AO would most likely not erect a statue in my honor.

I think, when it comes to something like keeping someone alive or not, in this type of situation, see what the medical officials have to say, check if they say it's possible or not, and then, IF IT MAKES SENSE move on with your life. As much as I understand and care about this woman's fight, and if I were in the same position I would feel whole heartedly for her, I hate to say, her daughter is well past the point of even making a full recovery.

There's this HBO special about teens and drinking, it shows a whole bunch of teens whom have been entirely damaged/wrecked mentally beyond control after alchoholic accidents and car crashes. Watch it - see what these poeple go through to even gain SOME sense of normalcy back. Because after they get it, it's not like they are entirely there anyway anymore.

[Decavolt]

...Honestly, this is a family issue. The courts don't need to be involved in it...

The courts are not involved by choice. Terry's family sued to keep her feeding tube in, and Terry's husband counter-sued. It's not as the the courts just waltzed in and said "we'll take it from here, folks".

[Lauri]

You can thank the legal battle between her parents and her husband for Congress' involvement.

At this point, the woman needs to be put out of her oblivious misery. After this long? Her parents, in addition to her husband, have put her through countless stupidity.

Forget the courts, forget the legal battle.. her husband is a total fuckwad for not taking care of her like he said he would, wanting her to die because he wants to marry his new girlie(hello, divorce?), and for refusing her her Catholic rights before death(the last time she had this stupid tube removed). Does that sound like a loving husband?

I dunno, the poor girl doesn't deserve to be the victim of such bitterness.

[FoxyJama]

Wow, I hadn't even heard of the case before (I don't watch the news. Ever.) But I did some reading this afternoon and found some rather interesting information about the cases being brought into the court.

The husband ordered *no therapy* and *no visits from other family* to the nurses caring for Terry, and 3 separate nurses stated under oath that he called regularly and asked questions like "When is that bitch gonna die?" and "Is she dead yet?". It was not until 10 years after her collapse (which, according to the court documents was "unexplained and uninvestigated") that her husband "remembered" that Terry had asked not to be kept alive. Why did he not say anything about this before? I'm sorry, something seems wrong with this. Compiled with the fact that he's spent half of the money that he was awarded in a malpractice lawsuit (meant for her therapy and medical expenses) hiring the best euthanasia lawyer money can buy doesn't look good.

2 neurologists and 3 medical doctors have testified that Terry is not in a PVS (permanent vegetative state), and she is not on life support. Given proper therapy (which she has been denied for 15 years) they suspect she would be eating on her own and possibly talking as well.

What it boils down (in my opinion) is A) the girl is alive, and not in a permanent vegetative state B) She does not have a documented living will C) Her parents are willing to care for her. Without a signed document or some other way for her to express her wishes, anything her husband says is self-serving heresay.

My husband knows, and my doctor knows, and both of them have identical notarized documents stating that I do not wish to be sustained on life support for a period of longer than one year, and that I wish for my organs/cadaver to be donated for scientific research, and I wish for my remains to be cremated and returned to my family after they have served this purpose.

Please... if this case is a lesson to anyone, let it remind you to take the time to put into writing what your wishes are, so that it will never be up to the courts to decide what it is that you want. Make identical copies and file them in a safe place, with different family members. Have them signed in front of a notary (notaries are easy to find) and give a copy to your doctor!

Sitting down and talking to your family about what you want is a good start, but not something that will hold up in court should your wishes be challenged.

PS: Starving to death is a fucking terrible way to die. The least they could do would be to allow her to die humanely. There's even laws in place that prevent you from starving your DOG to death. Hopefully if it is deemed that she's unfit to continue living or if she's able to voice her wishes to die, they'll allow her to end it quickly and without such prolonged suffering.

[Zephem]

...Honestly, this is a family issue. The courts don't need to be involved in it...

The courts are not involved by choice. Terry's family sued to keep her feeding tube in, and Terry's husband counter-sued. It's not as the the courts just waltzed in and said "we'll take it from here, folks".

I'm not saying the courts chose to be involved there. I'm saying, there shouldn't have been a need to. It's retarded that the guy won't hand power of attorney of the woman over to the parents. Honestly, it makes me wonder if he has something to hide.

[Maephina]

You are not the only one confused I'd say.
This case has received so much media attention lately it honestly makes me sick. The idea that our government has now gone out of their way to pass legislature specifically for this one case blows my mind-legislature that Bush signed just this morning (at like 1 am EST) which may give the woman a stay of execution. I say execution because that's essentially what they're doing to her by removing her feeding tube.

Last night I watched briefly the news reports about the congressional meeting they had regarding this case and the bill they were passing to keep Terry alive. shortly afterward I was blown away when one congressman said it was the Christian duty of this government to provide this woman with continued life. (Not stated exactly that way but that was the jist of it).

Now you'd think it'd be the "christian" thing to let her meet her maker after 15 years of laying in a hospital with no real existence to speak of other than what her parent's and family are saying about her. (She smiles, she looks at us, she reacts to our presence ect ect).

The husbands motivations for wanting Terry to pass on aside I believe this entire thing is a huge waste of tax payer money and time.

[FoxyJama]

wanting her to die because he wants to marry his new girlie(hello, divorce?),

If he divorces her, he loses all claim to the $750,000 remaining in her estate that was meant to cover her medical expenses.

[Lauri]

Exactly. SHE is not in his interests. All he wants is what he can get out of her.

The more crap I read about him, the more I'm inclined to believe HE could have been the one to cause her coma(based on loose reports of her possibly having suffered repeated trauma condusive to domestic abuse).

[Boinky]

You can thank the legal battle between her parents and her husband for Congress' involvement.

Well that & The Bush twins George & Jeb. Religion scares me. It's good to want to kill criminals but bad to let somebody die who has no life left?

[FoxyJama]

Food and water is the only thing she requires to stay alive, she's not dependent on conventional 'life support'. I believe at this point it wouldn't be "letting her die" as much as "starving her to death".

Maybe I'm just a jaded Texan who believes in the death penalty for parking violations, but how is this case relate to punishment for criminals?

This woman hasn't done anything to deserve an effective death sentence from the courts. In a way, that's a pity, because at least criminals are allowed a quick and painless death. We don't lock them in a jail cell to starve...

I personally would not want to continue living for 15 years with an erroded and fluid-bogged cerebral cortex. But for god's sake, put me out of my misery quickly. I've had to shoot animals that would have suffered long and painful deaths before, and I would hope my family would at least extend the same courtesy to me.

And Lauri, did you read about the bone scans done, and how it was discovered that a potassium imbalance did NOT cause her to have a heart attack, and that it might have been neck and rib trauma to cause her to go into a coma?

[Vallikat]

I don't think it matters why she's in this state. I don't think it matters even if the husband shot her in the head. Whether or not he's at fault*, a fuckwad, or selfish prick, she's still in the same condition. I still say that the answer here is to let her go. I agree that it shouldn't just be a matter of letting her linger on for weeks until she dies of starvation. I can't agree with that. But she needs peace. She has no peace now. She has no quality of life. We can only be thankful that she's blissfully unaware of the circus her so called loved ones are making of her life. This whole thing has Lifetime Movie written all over it, and that makes me litterally want to vomit.

But beyond that, the bigger picture here is what impact this is going to have on all of us. If the government can get involved in this (and yeah, they got involved because of the law suits out the ying/yang, but people sue each other ever day without it being allowed to boil over onto the congressional stage) then what's next? I mean I for one find it extremely scarey that our government can take it upon themselves not just to make this decision, but to enforce it by enacting a law.

This sets a very dangerous precedant.

It also gives me one more reason to really hate George Bush.


* Edit: Except that if it is proven that he was at fault he should be locked in a steel cage with Boo during a certain time in her cycle.

[Lauri]

And Lauri, did you read about the bone scans done, and how it was discovered that a potassium imbalance did NOT cause her to have a heart attack, and that it might have been neck and rib trauma to cause her to go into a coma?

Yep, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if it was all because of him. *shrug* Which is pretty much the only hope I had, last year, when they prolonged her life... it seemed as if they were going to head into an investigation.

Oh well. The sleeper case of the decade just got the limelight because of Congress. Kind of funny.

[Boinky]

Maybe I'm just a jaded Texan who believes in the death penalty for parking violations, but how is this case relate to punishment for criminals?

Because for the radical Right-wing Religious & Republicans Executing criminals = Good, but Letting somebody in a coma die = Bad. It's all the same line of thought for them, as easily as they know their right from their left & know that God helps them run the government they know those 2 things to be absolute truths. So while this case doesn't apply, the thinking medling in this case does.

[Tacz]

But the person in the coma didn't do anything wrong.

Sorry, playing the devils advocate.

[FoxyJama]

I don't think the political issue is really about letting someone in a coma die, and I don't think Congress or the president would have said boo about this issue if the family wanted to let her go. I know that most radical Republicans that I know believe just as firmly in the right to die as the right to life. If she had made her wishes known before this happened to her, there wouldn't be a case here. The president and the government are fighting for her family's right to keep her alive because that is what they want. I don't see anything wrong with that.