When does online-game fervor become addiction?

[Nexeus]

Article: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/02/18 ... 18921.html
Answer: When you DJ for a radio station that's based on a game you play!

[Crushproof]

I get pretty fired up when I see things like that.

The mother who is attempting to blame EverQuest for her son's suicide... It irks me when people try to place the blame on something like a game, movie, band, etc. or any one individual factor for something bad happening.

I truely feel bad for her loss, but pointing the finger directly at a videogame (and immediately ruling out all other factors [like family relationships, homelife, school, etc. etc.]) seems a bit naive.

[FoxyJama]

Addiction to a video game (or anything else) is often a symptom of a larger problem, not the problem itself. Most addicts I've met have deep seated issues they're trying to work with and that is what leads them to the addiction, and not the other way around.

[Tacz]

I'm not angry at the mother. If you care to notice, she started a group to help people get un-addicted to these games. That's a good thing, for those who choose it. It's not like she's trying to shut down SOE and FC.

[Darth Bootay]

I don't know. The article doesn't offer very much real information on that situation other than the following points:

1) 21 year old guy was an MMO-fiend.
2) 21 year old guy shot himself.
3) Dead guy's mom tries to get EQ-company to give her ingame logs and is refused.
4) Dead guy's mom starts a Gamer's 12-step online program.

It is strongly implied, but not openly stated that the Dead Guy's Mom blames gaming addiction for her son's suicide.

Based on this, I'd have to say that if the woman actually blames gaming addiction for her son's suicide, she's in denial about his life before he blew his brains out and needs to come to terms with the actual causes of him doing such a drastic thing instead of pinning it on his over-involvement in gaming.

Music, games and entertainment programming are NOT direct causes for anyone's suicide, no matter how much the grieving bereaved wish to pin it on them. Most of the time, they aren't even reliable indicators that someone has issues severe enough to take their own lives or the lives of others. Yet these hysterical people so often point the finger of blame to these things rather than sucking it up and going through the more rational, if painful process of examining the underlying issues that drive their dead or crazy loved ones to doing such things. I understand that denial and rage are both parts of the natural grieving process, but there's a line we must draw in accepting and enabling such irrational attacks on corporate entities and media personalities in response to the suicide of a loved one or the murder of others.

This has been going on for the entirety of my lifetime. Some moronic kid killed himself when I was little and his bereaved mother went nuts and sued the record company that released the M*A*S*H* TV series theme song "Suicide Is Painless" for being responsible for killing her baby. That this lawsuit was even allowed into court was LUDICROUS. That it caused the company enough trouble that they were forced to change the opening theme to exclude the lyrics was even crazier. That was like 30 or 40 years ago. Our population has become even more frivolously and irrationally litiginous since then.

At least this hypothetically denial-suffering mother hasn't started a lawsuit against the game company for killing her baby. At least for now.

[Highlander]

Some moronic kid killed himself when I was little and his bereaved mother went nuts and sued the record company that released the M*A*S*H* TV series theme song "Suicide Is Painless" for being responsible for killing her baby. That this lawsuit was even allowed into court was LUDICROUS. That it caused the company enough trouble that they were forced to change the opening theme to exclude the lyrics was even crazier. That was like 30 or 40 years ago.

Holy Freaken Crap.
i cant believe that.....

I love M*A*S*H..... (i have seasons 2-7 on DVD.... )

[Vallikat]

I can't read the artical just now, but quick 2 cents:

The woman just lost her son suddenly and unexpectedly. Maybe she is and maybe she isn't blaming the game company. But FFS she's grieving. She's looking for answers. ANY answers. I'd be looking for the game logs too. I'd probably be blaming the game, despite my own game use. It's only natural.

Here's the thing, if something good comes of it. If she gets peace of mind. If others get some peace of mind. If somehow things are better for her in her little corner of the world, then so what? SHE JUST LOST HER SON!! Let's not lose site of that fact. She's not living on RK. He's not going to reclaim and come back in 75 seconds.

Later I'll go back and read it and maybe I'll change my tune. But I kinda doubt it.

And Boo, wow, I was about to say that I am only 37 and used to watch M*A*S*H in first run so I doubted that it could've been 30-40 years ago...but damn!! M*A*S*H first aired in 1972. Christ I'm old!

[Darth Bootay]

And Boo, wow, I was about to say that I am only 37 and used to watch M*A*S*H in first run so I doubted that it could've been 30-40 years ago...but damn!! M*A*S*H first aired in 1972. Christ I'm old!

Scary huh? Having graduated in '83, I'm kinda mentally stuck in that decade and look at it as if it were only yesterday... but only yesterday is like more than 20 years ago...

As for dealing with loss... well I've lost a lot of people that I was very close to (part of that abandonment issue I've developed over the decades AND the basis of my policy of never leaving anything important undone till later), some to disease, some to violent death and some to suicide. So I know firsthand how emotionally disturbing a sudden, unforseen death can be. Especially a suicide.

You can think my stance on this is cold, but I myself have faced the questions that follow in the wake of the suicide of someone very close and never once did I consider pointing the finger of blame at something like a rockstar, videogame or movie; even at my least rational when the pain was so fresh that it was incapacitating. I'll admit that I'm far from typical... but honestly, I'm still human and subject to the same range of emotional responses, flaws and foibles as the rest of our screwy species.

[Vallikat]

[You can think my stance on this is cold, but I myself have faced the questions that follow in the wake of the suicide of someone very close and never once did I consider pointing the finger of blame at something like a rockstar, videogame or movie; even at my least rational when the pain was so fresh that it was incapacitating. I'll admit that I'm far from typical... but honestly, I'm still human and subject to the same range of emotional responses, flaws and foibles as the rest of our screwy species.

I don't find that cold. But, simply having dealt with tons of loss in your life doesn't make you an expert on this woman's loss. Even if you'd lost a kid to suicide it wouldn't make you an expert to this woman's pain. We all deal in our own ways. I'm a widow. Yeah. Not something I talk about a whole lot. But even considering that, I never say "I can understand what you're going through" when someone experiences a loss. I can't.

Anyway I guess the point is, just because you didn't point fingers doesn't mean this woman is wrong for pointing fingers (and I still don't know if she was pointing, yet). It doesn't make her wrong for wanting answers or wanting some idea of what was going on in her kid's head.

The holier-than-thou types out there can scream all they want that now is a little late to want to know or understand her own kid. But they fail to answer the question about how well their parents knew them or, for that matter, how much they wanted their parents to know them as teens. Most of us (not all, but most) want our parents out of our lives as much as possible as teens. Hell I want mine out of my life as much as possible now and I'm 37.

So now this woman is asking a ton of questions. Now this woman is wondering what she missed and if she was wrong to give her kid so much space and if she was wrong to want to be the cool mom who doesn't pry. Now she's got questions none of us can fathom. She has no way of getting those answers. Even if her kid was alive, she'd still have no way to find those answers. Sooner or later she'll figure that out. Until then, let her grieve.

[Mivat]

Given the fact that we're all different, it's wrong of me to say with a bombastic thump on the table that gaming addiction is not a reason to blow one's head off. But I don't think that it's the ONLY cause. It might be a catalyst for some deeper issue, but hey, what do I know. Humans are, as I've come to see it over the years, an utterly idiotic and in many cases outright stupid species in general. Individual humans can, as many people in AO and on these forums has proved time and time again, be smart, intelligent and all that. But in general: Humans is THE most idiotic species on the planet. Ask me about it sometime, and I'll tell you why.

But I do know this: Suing a gaming-company, rockstar, brand of Soda or the makers of Icecream because your son/daughter/husband/dogs mother-in-law took his/her/its own life is, to me, too dumb for words.

Yes, grieving can make you do a shitload of silly, idiotic and stupid things (I should know, I ended up in the ER twice because of such things), and even though we all deal with pain and suffering in our own way, I feel that suing, for example FunCom because my son (if I had one) played AO a lot and then blew his head off, is beyond idiotic.

I can, however, understand a parent's quest for knowing why. Having gone through quite a few weeks/months/years of trying to find out the allmighty why someone close to me was taken away from this plane of existence, I know all about that quest and the need to know.

I also think that it's a normal reaction to blame everything else than the real reasons for someone ending their own life or dies because of accidents, illness or whatever. Heck, I know I did. It's part of the process of coming to terms with what has happened, at least to me. Denial, blaming everything else, anger and even hatred, and then slowly realization IF it comes at all.

But attacking a gaming-company because of it.....?

[Sharle]

*is stil in denial*

[Vallikat]

I finally did read the article. You know what? There is not one mention that she is suing the game company or even attacking the game company. It only says that she went to them for logs and was denied. She then subsequently started an organization to help game addicts. Her son died in 2001. I would have to guess that by now she's on better terms with that fact and that she's still just trying to be hepful. Frankly I think that from the little that this artical reveals, she seems to be doing the right thing. She's trying to take some good and make something good out of a really horrible thing.

[FoxyJama]

Actually she has been on the news several times lambasting SOE for hiring psychologists to make EQ more addictive. She has made several untrue allegations about the game, the people in the game, and what the game does to people. I became quite interested in her website and organization a few years ago when Shawn Wooley died (it was a HUGE issue in EQ at the time) and back when she was on 48 Hours. She *does* blame the game, the developers, and the addiction for her son's death, which I think is unfortunate. She *is* helping people to overcome that addiction and giving them a way out when there isn't much other support for something like that, and for that I applaud her. I just think her reasons for doing so are a bit flawed.

Gaming addiction is a real problem, much like gambling addiction, and the cause has to be dealt with. Recognizing that certain people with certain needs are particularly vulnerable to the escape that online gaming has to offer is a step in the right direction. Pointing the finger at gaming companies isn't. Blaming card manufacturers isn't the right thing to do in order to deal with gambling addiction, for instance.

[Crushproof]

12 Step Program? Bullshit

Heh, check out the video for the episode preview.

[Vallikat]

Actually she has been on the news several times lambasting SOE for hiring psychologists to make EQ more addictive. She has made several untrue allegations about the game, the people in the game, and what the game does to people. I became quite interested in her website and organization a few years ago when Shawn Wooley died (it was a HUGE issue in EQ at the time) and back when she was on 48 Hours. She *does* blame the game, the developers, and the addiction for her son's death, which I think is unfortunate.

Ok, this I did not know. I never heard of this woman prior to this article Anyway, I don't disagree that it's wrong and unfortunate to blame the game companies for her son's suicide. I could go on and on about the disfunctions of my own family and my mother's denial. I won't. But believe me, I could write novels on the topic. Anyway, I know that this is the way some people -> women -> mothers function. But unless this particular woman does something harmful to me, I say let her have her crusade.

[Mivat]

12 Step Program? Bullshit

Heh, check out the video for the episode preview.

Want to see the biggest bullshit on the entire internet?

This is what I got when trying to access the site.

We at Showtime Online express our apologies; however, these pages are intended for access only from within the United States.

[Plesk]

Warning: Attempt at intelligent social commentary incoming!

One thing that irks me about todays society is the inability to accept responsibility for one's actions. Seems like every time something bad happens to someone, they look for someone (or something) to blame instead of considering the fact that it may somehow (oh god forbid) be at least partially their own failt.

Now before you begin the flaming.. I'm not saying that the death of this lady's son is in any way her fault, and at the same time I'm not saying that she's 100% innocent either. None of us really know what happened.

Another societal trend I've noticed in the last several years is that it seems to be common practice to "raise children to raise themselves" (I know it's a song lyric, but it's true). I can only speculate as to the family situation here, but it IS possible that maybe this lady should have been paying a little more attention to her child, and show a little affection once in a while.

In closing, I think the world needs to wake the hell up to the fact that yes, we are human, we make mistakes! And what do we teach our children when we blame everyone but ourselves for our shortcomings?

Just my 2 cents.

[Ashval]

Well said, Plesk...really well said.

[Tristalyn]

Ya know.. it's not all that far fetched. I think the only reason most of you are having a hard time understanding is because you've never been there.

This is not the only case of a death caused by a video game. I recall a man commiting suicide a few years back because his in game girlfriend died (or something happened to her).

Some people really do get that into the game. It's scary, but it's real. People call in work sick to play, neglect their real life duties and shut out the world entirely for the game world. I've never gotten quite that in to a game before, but I've often thought of things that I needed to do IRL and opted to play instead.. which alone is bad enough, but some people have no self control and feel the game world contains far less drama and responsibility.

Perhaps the game was the cause of her sons death.. With the way some kids get addicted there's absolutaly no doubt that it's a high probability. It's unfortunate and sad.. and I do feel for the mother who is grieving. Then again, perhaps she's doing what we all do when we lose someone.. finding something to blame it on. It may not be the right thing to do, but we've all done it. I guess we'll never really know. Just don't shut your minds out to the possibility... anything can happen.

[Vallikat]

The kid in question here wasn't a kid or even teen as I had originally thought. He was a 21 year old man. Ok, so first there is a high probability that he was no longer living at home. Even if he was, what he did with his time had been his business, legally, from the time he turned 18. So any arguement that she should've been more involved go out the window. Yes, he's still her kid. But you need to be able to trust your kids to make their own decisions and run their own lives at some point in time. That doesn't mean that you cut all ties. But it does mean that he was well within his rights to cut his ties from her. For all we know, he may very well have done so. If he was to an extremity of game addiction that was likely the case.

So yeah, Plesk, well said. But I don't buy your arguement that she should've been more involved or shown him affection. She may have wanted to be and he may have shut her out.