I promised myself I wouldn't cry

[Tacz]

But I can't stop...
http://www.clermontyellow.accountsuppor ... ilThen.swf

[Highlander]

Wow. That was very interesting, had some great pics.

Well done.

[Tzaphiel]

I found myself looking for my little brother... I couldn't keep myself from trying.... I am definately waiting "Until Then" Thanks Tacz... *smiles* very touching

[Nexeus]

*salute*

[Mummu]

actually indeed some good pics.
the one crawling one the roof is the verybest.

[Xtrophic]

Some very good pictures showing a reality media likes to neglect to give us, that touch you in a way.
*sheds a tiny tear*

[Elliya]

That video really makes you think... I mean, the media puts the 'war is brave, and we're doing it for our pride, CAUSE WE'RE AMERICA' fascade... But thats really not it at all... What got me was the soldiers helping the children and the people of that country... True, we're forcing our beliefs and our ways down their throats... But its only because we, as America, have found a better way to live... And maybe we are going a bit overboard with the war...

In the end, all of this will help someone... Lead them to somewhere more peaceful, where they can make their own decisions...

Thats what life is, eh? Life, -skips Liberty-, and the Pursuit of Happiness?

[Zephem]

The sad thing is that some of the very same people that the soldiers are there to protect and help, are turning them into the terrorists.

Wouldn't you freak out if you go to a town that you haven't been to yet before to do a search, and suddenly everything goes quiet, everyone goes inside their homes and locks the doors, and you see no one in the streets. Everyday thing for the guys over there.

Definately a nice little video. Friend of mine who's in Iraq right now is working on his own video for family and friends, etc. Should be interesting to see how his ends up.

[Elliya]

I know... it really is a shame how some people just won't be helped... -shiver- Much sympathy overseas, to everyone, in this time of chaos.

Do you think your friend will be putting his video on the net, or just keeping it between family and friends? I'd love to see... and it'd be interesting to see an actual video of whats going on, not what CNN likes to show us...

[Coltess]

Warning!
[political diatribe]

But its only because we, as America, have found a better way to live...

Says you.

it really is a shame how some people just won't be helped...

I seriously doubt the US "liberation" of Iraq will help the Iraqi people anytime in the foreseeable future.
The cynic in me says that as soon as the US leaves Iraq one of two things will happen.
1 - Civil war will break out between Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims, and the Kurds. They only “got along” because Sadam suppressed the Kurds and the Shia Muslims.
2 - Another “Strong Man” will take over and either suppress or try to annihilate any unwanted groups.

I could be wrong of course, but I doubt it. Just look at what happened in Africa after the European colonial governments left, or with India/Pakistan, or with the Balkans after communism collapsed. Or am I just overly cynical and pessimistic?
[/political diatribe]

[Zephem]

You're forgetting the other factor as well. Neighboring countries invading Iraq before it has a stable military to defend itself. Iran has been eyeing up the territory for a while.

[Oddysee]

/Disclaimer:

I am NOT bashing, nor saying the war is right or wrong. I happen to think it's both. This might have been touching to americans, I can't say, but when you look past the feeling of "pride, nationalism, and bliss" of seeing some "Real life" pictures, it's as fake as the rest of it. And thus doesn't have immunity as such. Just like hiding behind "9/11" doesn't make everything one might say about war and revenge right either.
Again, I cannot stress enough, this is NOT an attack, so no "anti yank" crap like I always get for getting critical on America. Disagreeing doesn't equal hate. For once, don't pull that bloody card.

/Disclaimer end.

For the sake of keeping this to what it was about, I wont rant. But Elliya, those are some very strong words mate.
The fact that this wasn't meant for us non-yanks doesn't grant it immunity. What you described just then is the basics of dictatorship. What you're glorious army has set out to "liberate" those very people from. What you saw just then is no different from what CNN is showing you. One side of the story. Some are innocent, others are not. All are present.
I don't mean to start a "war" here, just saying. You might wanna rethink that statement.
"Liberating" people because you "know" you have a better life is what all invasions are about. We know better because we think so. Would you like religious zealots invading your home, telling you that they know how you should live?

<Massive Edit: Sorry, was gettin too critical. Enjoy your flash movie.>




Tm

[Mivat]

I had written a long and rather colourful remark about the file, but then deleted it as I went a little overboard.

Yes, the movie gets me thinking, but more among the cameraderie between soldiers than anything else.

**disclaimer! these are my personal meanings about the issue. Read at own risk**
I had to seriously edit my thread, though, because what was a mild-mannered post became a full fledged firestorm against nationalism, which is something I hate with a vengeance from here to eternety's end and is something that seems to have been popping up like mad hatters on acid among many of the americans I talk to regularly.

And please do not confuse taking pride in ones country as the same as being nationalistic. If you can't see the difference between them, I do not think that I can say or do anything to show you the difference.

[Coltess]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Does that roughly mean "Who watches the watchers?"?

[Mivat]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Does that roughly mean "Who watches the watchers?"?

Almost. I think the correct one is "Who shall guard the guardians?"

[Tacz]

God damn you people! You're are too wrapped up in this political hoo-hah! Can you not, just for one thread, for one little chunk of your life, have a little admiration? Some admiration for these men and women, regardless of whether they want to or not, and regardless of whether they like Bush or support the war, are still out there risking their lives and limbs to try their hardest to give these people a better way of life? Alot of them don't want to be there, but they're doing the same as all the other troops. They're there to help personally, even if they question their orders and their commander-in-chief. Is it truly, really, THAT impossible for you guys to just sit back for one thread and leave all that other bullshit out, and just admire these men and women for what they are trying to do, while there are people constantly trying for life and limb to kill them!? Seriously.

[Mivat]

Weather you believe me or not, Tacz, I do have a good portion of admiration for the the soldiers, as most of them are highly professional.

What I do NOT have an ounce of admiration for, is what I call overblown nationalism that most of such vids tend to contain. To it's defence, though, it IS a rather good one, and only goes overboard at the end. Politics does have a part in pretty much everything, and there is nothing to do about that.

I will stay out of this thread from now on, as I can see that no good will come from this. PM me if you have questions.