RIAA and stuff...

[Sylvatic]

I heard RIAA and thought I'd write an essay-length rant on the subject...

**************************

File sharing pisses me off and I'll tell you why. There are so many stupid stupid students at this school who WASTE (Yea, I said it...) the school's bandwidth by STEALING (I said that, too...) music, movies, etc. When I ask my fellow students why they download music, I always get the same stupid response.

"Well if I didn't have to pay so much to go to school, I could afford to buy CDs."

Meanwhile, I can't get a ping below 200ms to any UT2K3 server.

When a few others complained about the problem, UTK gave us bandwidth to host our own server...and we promptly shut up

I, personally, don't have any of the prominent file sharing programs on my machine. I dunno, I just have convictions about the whole thing. You all are of course entitled to your own opinions, and I have no doubt I'll hear them soon enough.

If I hear a song on XM (It r0xx0rz...highly recommend it) that I really like, I earn a little bit of money mowing yards or tutoring, and go buy the damn CD...which is how the system should work IMHO.

*switches sides*

I DO NOT condone the RIAA's assault on individuals who download these files. It's not logical (Which you'll soon find pisses me off the most...).

*switches back*

The RIAA should shut down all the companies that produce these programs. It is theft of property and all...which is illegal in this country.

</rant>

Can I get my title changed to "Cynical Bastard"? I think it fits

[Oddysee]

Uhm... ok...

My two cents.

I use the progs, A LOT! And I shall continiue to do so... I simply can't just impulse buy shit no more, as I've done it that often, and it's blown!
So now, I check out what I buy before doin it. Yes, that means I download the whole CD and listen to it, if I can stand it for a week, I buy it... And yes! It also means I DO buy them, I like having originals, but I'm not having original crap, no point in it!

If the market hadn't been cramped with all this cheap, cheesy rip-off sell out crap, I wouldn't do it, but it is! The market killed itself, we, as consumers, simply found a way around the monopoly...

Yes, I'm aware that some people overdo it... So? Their problem, some people also take advantage of health care... should we shut that down too?

And without it, I would NEVER have heard about all the stuff I listen too now, cus it all has to be ordered from abroad... We only have the top of the pops in this country, NOTHING different and non-mainstream... Life would be HELL if I had to listen to that sappy, sentimental crap every day!
And you, you never heard any music from a friend, that a friend told him about?... How do you think most of that was found?...
By searching under a tittle... like "Punk" or "rock" and then clickin the tittle to sample the bands...

And if you think your music taste hasn't been influenced in some way by it... Your naive!

-Ranting terminated-


Tm

[Sylvatic]

Uhm... ok...

My two cents.

I use the progs, A LOT! And I shall continiue to do so... I simply can't just impulse buy shit no more, as I've done it that often, and it's blown!
So now, I check out what I buy before doin it. Yes, that means I download the whole CD and listen to it, if I can stand it for a week, I buy it... And yes! It also means I DO buy them, I like having originals, but I'm not having original crap, no point in it!

If the market hadn't been cramped with all this cheap, cheesy rip-off sell out crap, I wouldn't do it, but it is! The market killed itself, we, as consumers, simply found a way around the monopoly...

Yes, I'm aware that some people overdo it... So? Their problem, some people also take advantage of health care... should we shut that down too?

And without it, I would NEVER have heard about all the stuff I listen too now, cus it all has to be ordered from abroad... We only have the top of the pops in this country, NOTHING different and non-mainstream... Life would be HELL if I had to listen to that sappy, sentimental crap every day!
And you, you never heard any music from a friend, that a friend told him about?... How do you think most of that was found?...
By searching under a tittle... like "Punk" or "rock" and then clickin the tittle to sample the bands...

And if you think your music taste hasn't been influenced in some way by it... Your naive!

-Ranting terminated-


Tm

True enough, but still...it's copyrighted material. I don't care if the industry shot itself in the foot, it's still illegal to steal from them.

Concerning the "lesser heard" music, there are plenty of sites that artists can upload their stuff to. Many of my friends have joined the "Fruityloops" craze and make their CDs from their home PCs. They upload them to these sites so friends of friends can tell people about them. Hell, MP3.com is free, and where I get some good stuff if I'm in a music mood.

I also pay for XM Satellite Radio, as I metioned before, and I think it's one of the better mediums on the market for finding new music. It's LEGAL...which is why I prefer it to the "instant gratification" that is KaZaA and it's bastard children.

I'm also no perfect angel when it comes to the subject. I pay for USENET. Hypocritical as it may be, I still feel better paying for a service no matter where my money goes.

Concerning downloading music to "stand it", that's fine IMHO. I don't do it, but if you downloaded the music for purely demonstration purposes and deleted it when you were finished instead of spreading the "file-sharing" virus to people with fewer morals: That's ok.

My music taste has been influenced by these programs. If anything, it has heightened my appriciation for the genuine article.

Maybe if everyone in the world had the same musical talent as those artists whose work is downloaded, this wouldn't be such an issue. However, these people spend their lives to entertain you. The least you can do is be a gentleman about the whole thing and pay them for it. You do after all, tip entertainers in SWG...

</rant>

I promise I'm a nice guy...this is the only real thing that irks me to this extent. And yea, I am selfish. My school's network is a DS3 100M connection...and my roommate and I can't ping below 200 after 8 PM. Me, me, me, me, me...I want that bandwidth, dammit!!!

[Oddysee]

Well, to be quite honest, I leave the music out there, I upload the new MP3's from the CD, to the quality I want, and share... as that's how I found it, so somone else might too... and I wan't to help in that process...
If nobody'd done that, I'd never have heard most of my fav bands... and that would be a damn shame, as I enjoy them VERY much! To miss out on that, would be to miss out on my current personality, ergo: Me!



Tm

[Sylvatic]

Well, to be quite honest, I leave the music out there, I upload the new MP3's from the CD, to the quality I want, and share... as that's how I found it, so somone else might too... and I wan't to help in that process...
If nobody'd doen that, I'd never have heard most of my fav bands... and that would be a damn shame, as I enjoy them VERY much! To miss out on that, would be to miss out on my current personality, ergo: Me!



Tm

So you're, in effect, giving out music for free to people...much like a radio station in your mind, I suppose. And yet, radio stations must pay royalties to have the right to play these songs. This, in turn, requires the radio stations to have those gawd-awful commercials in between sets just to turn a profit. Your file sharing programs do much the same thing. They have advertisements in the form of the hated "pop-up." However, the companies behind these programs do not pay record companies anything. I will shut my fat mouth the day that the world has to pay for services like KaZaa, so that they will in turn pay the people who bring us music.

Concerning your comparison to health care...
Sure, people abuse health care, but your statement was about the stupidest thing I've heard in defense of file sharing.
THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
Health care is mandatory for people to continue living...music is not. Music is entertainment, and by definition a service, not a necessity. Therefore, you should NOT have to pay for health care, and you should pay for music.

This next bit is pure speculation, as I do not have the time to research this. Any of you GSP folk correct me if this is false.

I would think that the fee GSP pays Live365 for the service we know and love does not go entirely to Live365's parent company. I would further assume that Live365 pays record labels royalties much as normal radio stations do. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

As always, if there is a flaw in my logic, point it out and I'll shut up.

[Oddysee]

[...]So you're, in effect, giving out music for free to people...much like a radio station in your mind, I suppose[...]

Do us both a favour... don't patronise me... any theory you might have as to my so called "motives" are all fine and such, but don't get smart on my account mate... It won't lead to a progressive debate. I can slander too, tho I see no need to try and analyse you, as a person... nor your "kind" or what makes you tick... let's keep this objective shall we?

I'm giving people the chance I had... to find something that makes them happy...

Nothing more... nothing less!

And I didn't make that example above becaus it was on the same lvl, I made it to state that, just because some idiots f**k it up, doens't mean the rest of us should suffer... It would be the same as me, postin obscene pic's, and then having the pic forum removed because it was missused... Not fair on the rest you...

And I for one beleive in free choice, give people a choice, what they do with it, is their decision, not yours, not mine...
But as any choice, it can be missused... that doens't mean it's wrong...

And legal or not... sorry, but I don't give a damn, that part is so messed up anyway. The money that "dissapears" is not taken from the artist, it's taken from the company, the same company that forces many artists to slave contracts... sorry can't feel sorry for 'em, also because survey's have indicated that the market never really fell... the majority of the peeps who don't buy cd's now, didn't before... now they just get the music as well... and NO! I'm not an anarchist or som'n like that. I happen to be a liberalist (and one of the few, here in socialistic Denmark) But I can't get a head ache over not wanting to be screwed by the record companies anymore... I was scammed on more than one occasion... and scammed bad. So I have no remorse for those companies anymore... from now on, I wanna check and test what I buy, because if som'n they sold me f**k's up, they'll try and make it my fault... so why should I care for the sake of their convieniance?


Tm

[Xtrophic]

I would think that the fee GSP pays Live365 for the service we know and love does not go entirely to Live365's parent company. I would further assume that Live365 pays record labels royalties much as normal radio stations do. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, that is correct. Live365 pays royalities for the songs we play on air, and for that we pay live365 a montly fee. The fee includes both the royalties, making GSP a legal radio, as well as the bandwidth to broadcast it to all the people who tune in.
_____________________

My point of view on the filesharing is a direct comparison with the oldschool days when you went to your neighbour, took the latest tape in the dual tape deck and copied it. You also took your favourite songs from all the taps you had and made your own compilation which you spread to your other friends. If you found an artist you liked, you got more music from them. I never recalled anyone beeing sued or called a mighty pirate for this. It only helped circulation of the music IMO

So have that in mind when reading the following statement.
If songs are shared, you can download and "preview" the songs and base a decision upon that if you should buy the CD or not. Today's pricetag on CD's is way to high for me to buy a CD randomly hoping it to be good. If I want to spend my $20 on a new CD I want to make sure it is good value for my money, and not just get a crap CD I will use once and throw it away. For every crap CD I buy I become more hesitant to buy a new CD next time. If however I have scoped out an artist I really like I will probably end up buying more CD's from this single artist because I like it, and keep doing so when the artist releases new CD's.

Of course you can debate wheater or not it's morally right to download and share MP3's, but I find no moral conflicts there due to the high pricetag.

The best thing the music industry could do is instead of declaring war on internet and music sharing utilize this extremly good resource to benefit themselves, as well as the end buyer (us). Put all CD's online with say a 30s preview, and then you can buy single songs or entire albums right off the internet making your download perfectly legal.

For the record I would like to state that I too buy CD's frequently, as well as utilizing a perfect service called E-Music on the net where you pay a montly fee and download as much music as you want, thus making the music on your HD legal since you have payed for the content. If you too would like to find out more about this service go visit: www.emusic.com and check it out. There was a 14day / 50 song download trial when I signed up which you could cancel before the 14days or 50 sonngs was up.

[Firia]

People people, get your own thread. this is for all those lovely body piercings, tats, and art! ^_^ Take your RIAA disgussion outta here. ^_^ I dunno if the weak stomached can handle it anymore.

[Ichyro]

"Stealing someone elses work is wrong"...


Killing people is perhaps the worst taboo in the world.

And we do it every day, perhaps even to your happyness. "Killing Saddam, bush, or hitler", some asshole, but it remains.

Nothing is set in stone, and merely saying "They stole it, its ours, we sue" is because you have nothing else to argue about.

I download music, so is that the same as a car thief?

Then I guess killing someone who will kill you is the same as killing in cold blood.

Hey, notice how little Spineshank is in Kazaa? I think it was priacy prevention done, and besides wanting to contribute to a GOOD artist, I will have anotehr incentive to buy it.


I would hate having to buy every CD ,to test it out.

I happen to like only one song by Nelly, and I won't support an artist I dont like, sans one song.

Kazaa is a wonderful tool, albeit a gift from the devil (So to speak).

Instead of listening to one song, and hating it, I can download a few, and if I like some of them, or all, then its na incentive to buy.

[Oddysee]

People people, get your own thread. this is for all those lovely body piercings, tats, and art! ^_^ Take your RIAA disgussion outta here. ^_^ I dunno if the weak stomached can handle it anymore.

Werd!


Tm

[Sylvatic]

I retract my earlier statement. I was wrong to assume any part of you as a person, much less the complexity of psyche and personality.

I will try to keep the convection of my ideas civilized from now on. Personal Error. I apologize.

Bah...I give up...If one stupid kid from Tennessee isn't going to change one person's mind, how am I supposed to change the minds of others.

****************************
I will now focus all my hatred and rage on Otori...

YOUR SOONERS ARE SO GOING TO LOSE!!!

[Sylvatic]

Yes, that is correct. Live365 pays royalities for the songs we play on air, and for that we pay live365 a montly fee. The fee includes both the royalties, making GSP a legal radio, as well as the bandwidth to broadcast it to all the people who tune in.
_____________________

My point of view on the filesharing is a direct comparison with the oldschool days when you went to your neighbour, took the latest tape in the dual tape deck and copied it. You also took your favourite songs from all the taps you had and made your own compilation which you spread to your other friends. If you found an artist you liked, you got more music from them. I never recalled anyone beeing sued or called a mighty pirate for this. It only helped circulation of the music IMO

So have that in mind when reading the following statement.
If songs are shared, you can download and "preview" the songs and base a decision upon that if you should buy the CD or not. Today's pricetag on CD's is way to high for me to buy a CD randomly hoping it to be good. If I want to spend my $20 on a new CD I want to make sure it is good value for my money, and not just get a crap CD I will use once and throw it away. For every crap CD I buy I become more hesitant to buy a new CD next time. If however I have scoped out an artist I really like I will probably end up buying more CD's from this single artist because I like it, and keep doing so when the artist releases new CD's.

Of course you can debate wheater or not it's morally right to download and share MP3's, but I find no moral conflicts there due to the high pricetag.

The best thing the music industry could do is instead of declaring war on internet and music sharing utilize this extremly good resource to benefit themselves, as well as the end buyer (us). Put all CD's online with say a 30s preview, and then you can buy single songs or entire albums right off the internet making your download perfectly legal.

For the record I would like to state that I too buy CD's frequently, as well as utilizing a perfect service called E-Music on the net where you pay a montly fee and download as much music as you want, thus making the music on your HD legal since you have payed for the content. If you too would like to find out more about this service go visit: www.emusic.com and check it out. There was a 14day / 50 song download trial when I signed up which you could cancel before the 14days or 50 sonngs was up.

Uh oh...Xtrophic is going tape deck on me...

So the CD prices are high...big deal. It's still morally wrong to not pay for them. Here's a simple solution that my suitemates from last year used. They both like the same genre of music, mostly country/bluegrass. It was a unique system, with one flaw...you have to like the same kind of music as your friend. That flaw noted...here's what they did.

(To quote Crank Yankers, the names have not been changed, Screw the Innocent)

Ben likes CD A
Joe says Ok.
Ben and Joe split cost of CD A.
Ben burns copy of CD A for Joe.
Having both paid for the CD, there is no problem in the minds of parties involved.
Joe likes CD B.
Ben says Ok.
Ben and Joe split cost of CD B.
Joe burns copy of CD B for Ben.
Rinse.
Repeat.



The rest are perfect ideas and I agree with every one of them. Simply because you're PAYING for the music.

Edit: *sighs* I'm such a prick...

[Tarryk]

If I see an independant company release an album, I will buy it, knowing that the royalties are going to the artists that produced the album.

Those artists deserve my money.

When I see an album on the shelves at Best Buy, I am hesitant. Why? Because the artist doesn't even see a fraction of a cent from that album, it's all sucked straight into the RIAA and their distributors.

Those "big artists" you see who have lots of money? They didn't get that from selling albums. They got that from selling out. Movie soundtracks, T-shirts, commercials. They do SO MUCH stuff that those puny little percentages they get from it all start to add up.

When it should have originally been all about the music.

Read: http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-09-07-1.html

And don't skimp. I mean it. Read the whole thing.

[Sylvatic]

If I see an independant company release an album, I will buy it, knowing that the royalties are going to the artists that produced the album.

Those artists deserve my money.

When I see an album on the shelves at Best Buy, I am hesitant. Why? Because the artist doesn't even see a fraction of a cent from that album, it's all sucked straight into the RIAA and their distributors.

Those "big artists" you see who have lots of money? They didn't get that from selling albums. They got that from selling out. Movie soundtracks, T-shirts, commercials. They do SO MUCH stuff that those puny little percentages they get from it all start to add up.

When it should have originally been all about the music.

Read: http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-09-07-1.html

Fair enough, I don't buy CDs from Best Buy or Walmart either...

Knoxville has the dandiest little place called "The Disc Exchange". They have a gigantic selection of Techno. Pretty much, I close my eyes and point and 99% of the time I end up liking what I paid for.

Granted their obstinate, greedy, pricks...but record company execs deserve SOME (Not what they get now, mind you) payment for what they do.

I should've just kept my big mouth shut...

[Ichyro]

No Syl, a opinion is always needed for the other side, and yours might have been wrong in my eyes, or in Oddysees, but it might not have been.

Though I agree, the RIAA bitches due to their losing of cash, not the artists.

[Tarryk]

Any record label should behave as the independant label would, in my opinion, and the RIAA should be shut down completely.

The label consolidates all the costs for service, such as packaging, burning, and distribution, factors in a percentage for themselves (since doing all that IS work and that's how the label would stay in business), then factor in an EQUAL OR GREATER percentage for the artists, work the loan out, and bam. Album released.

With the strength of supply-and-demand on the internet, I'm of the opinion that any label with an initial lump sum can make out like a bandit AND pay their artists well by simply setting the supply by email-ordering only. That way you're only paying per-CD and you don't have any backstock or overall sales losses to deal with.

THEN, if the CD hits huge, you start contacting distribution centers (like Best Buy) and offering bulk shipments.

[Sylvatic]

You're probably right, Tarryk, being a musician yourself. I'm just a dumb kid who was raised to believe taking something without paying for it is wrong.

Again, I apologize for my outbursts. I hope I haven't lost a few dozen potential friends.

[Tarryk]

You certainly have not lost friends here, Syl. I haven't gone through all of this thread yet, but if anyone offered harsh words over this subject, I'll whup their ass for ya.

It's all opinions, and we are each entitled to our own. Now get over to that Polls forum and use that opinionated brain where it really counts.

[Sylvatic]

The only harsh words were mine.

[Tarryk]

*whups your ass*