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Vista?
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by Mivat » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:26 pm
Planning to get it when (and if) I can scrape together the $300 that it costs here. I have the beta 1, beta 2 and RC1's, and I liked them when I had them installed. Of course, there's the usual challenges that comes with a new OS, but nothing that won't be solved in time.
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by Jassel » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:08 pm
I like it... Its ok.. I haven't found my geeky way through it yet, but I really haven't had time to.
A lot of hardware and other softwares aren't fully working with it yet. you would think printer companies would have been ready for this, but they weren't. Go figure!
It's ok.. If I didn't have to learn it for my job, I would have put XP onto the laptop I just bought last week.
A lot of hardware and other softwares aren't fully working with it yet. you would think printer companies would have been ready for this, but they weren't. Go figure!
It's ok.. If I didn't have to learn it for my job, I would have put XP onto the laptop I just bought last week.
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by ivanelme » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:24 pm
I just got it and it isn't that bad. It's got the look I've been wanting for a long time (god did I hate that big green start button), and a lot of the additions are rather nice. Only had to upgrade one driver so it really wasn't that much of a hassle. Still just wading through it and checking all the features.
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by Cryonic » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:06 pm
I usually wait for a while when a new O/S comes out for a couple of reasons:
1 to let the initial bugs to be fixed
2 to let hardware manufacturers bring out compatible drivers
3 to get reviews from others
and
4 I am lazy and hate the hassle involved.
Cry,
1 to let the initial bugs to be fixed
2 to let hardware manufacturers bring out compatible drivers
3 to get reviews from others
and
4 I am lazy and hate the hassle involved.
Cry,
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by Kyrros » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:29 am
Most of the manufacturers weren't able to get thier drivers tested for more than a cursory "does it crash the machine?" check because the Microsoft teams dealing with Vista were constantly coming out with new revisions of the core OS code, with multiple candidates for release being tested at the same time. In my opinion, they should have pushed the launch out another 6 months so it wasn't a crazy fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants operation.. but I don't think the upper management would have gone along with that.
As is, the vaunted security of Vista's been severely compromised because people complained about not being able to run 3rd party applications easily (the whole point of the LUA-based security) so Microsoft pretty much canned the strongest general defense against people running crap on your comp that you don't want. Funny thing is.. the people that were really screaming were the antivirus/antispam companies like Symantec and McAfee which would have been hurt the most by having someone release a 'secure' (albiet not perfect by far) OS.
Microsoft monopoly or 3rd party crap on your comp? Take your pick.
As is, the vaunted security of Vista's been severely compromised because people complained about not being able to run 3rd party applications easily (the whole point of the LUA-based security) so Microsoft pretty much canned the strongest general defense against people running crap on your comp that you don't want. Funny thing is.. the people that were really screaming were the antivirus/antispam companies like Symantec and McAfee which would have been hurt the most by having someone release a 'secure' (albiet not perfect by far) OS.
Microsoft monopoly or 3rd party crap on your comp? Take your pick.
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by Mivat » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:02 pm
Humm...this became a long one 
Well, then Vista is installed and running smoothly. No issues with the installation at all, except for one device that I don't have drivers for (and have no idea what is). My comp is, strangely enough, also FASTER than what it was in XP.
So far I've tested Auto Assault, WoW and Red Orchestra on the gaming-side. RO has issues connecting to other LAN-games through Hamachi, quite possibly due to the firewall in Vista (even though it's deactivated for both Private, Local and Public networks). Internet-games are no problem at all, and the game seems to run smoother than before. WoW has slightly higher FPS than when running on XP (5 to 8, even in Darkshore, with all eyecandy turned to max). AA had to be run as Administrator in compatability-mode, but other than that: no problems what so ever.
The only REAL issue I have with Vista, is the fact that Microsoft has done away with pure Directsound and gone over to OpenAL instead. What does this mean? Well, no true Quadrophonic speaker-output from my Realtek Azalia soundchip over two different sets of speakers, for example (running a Logitech Z-210-set as front-speakers, and have a Marantz PM30 amplifier with two Marantz speakers as rear units). I get a strange, flat sound from my rear speakers, and it sounds like the rear speaker-set drives the bass and low tones, while the front does the higher tones. It works, but it's not ideal (especially not in games, even in Red Orchestra, which supports OpenAL).
What remains to be tested? Well, there's always a stack of games (yep, I'm a gamer even at 31, and I'm damn proud of it). I don't suspect any errors or problems with newer games like HalfLife 2 or Dawn of War:Dark Crusade, but I am curious on how games like IL2 (which uses OpenGL) runs and looks, and not to mention how Lock On:Flaming Cliffs will behave. LO:FC comes bundled with the oft-hated-upon Starforce III (please spare me the comments on how evil SF is, as I've yet to come across a problem with it), so there'll be some poking around on the boards to check before I install it. I know there's a patch from Starforce that needs to be installed, but that's about the limit of my knowledge about it at the moment.
Quick-list of likes:
Windows Mail: (Built-in mailclient). Wonderful piece of software compared to the old Outlook Express-variants. It even has a spamfilter that works straight out of the box, which is more than I can say about Thunderbird (even though that's good as well)
Aero: Yummeh, even IF it is a rip from MacOSX (why not copy it if it works and looks beautiful?). MacOSX still looks better, though, but Aero isn't far behind in my opinion. And it's a far cry from the bubblegum-GUI of XP.
Driver-support: Vista has good support for older units (not TOO old, mind you), but with the change of the sound-system in DX10/Vista, my old Creative Soundblaster Live 5.1 is obsolete and without drivers. But on the plus side: It found my ViMicro Webcam, which is a hideous BITCH in XP, straight away without problems. And now that most hardware-manufacturers has managed to put out drivers, most things work (still wondering what the Communications Device without drivers I have is. Suspect it's either a part of the Marvel Yukon NIC, or possibly something in the Intel ICH8R-chip that's lacking the proper drivers)
Performance/Stability: Vista, at least on my setup, seems faster than a newly installed XP. No errors, bluescreens or obvious bugs noted, no abnormal resource-usage discovered etc. How this will hold up will be interesting.
Now to the list of the things I DON'T like....
UAC (User Access Control): Annoying as hell, to be honest. True, it's an extra layer of insulation between the user and the core system, but when I want to change something; CHANGE IT! Take your messages and stuff it up your PCI-bushandling-routines, ffs! Luckily it's easy to disable, which was probably the first thing I did after installation.
Triple-layer firewall: While a good piece of software and seemingly good enough to protect the computer from mundane attacks (wouldn't trust it against a determined attacker that knows what he/she/it is doing), but annoying that I had to disable it through the Windows Firewall with Advanced Security-option that hides in the Administrative Tools in the Control Panel (had serious issues in getting a certain piece of software that I run to work
Kept getting these annoying Unable to Connect-messages from the client-part ). True, can always add things to the various exception-lists, but since I run a hardware-based firewall with NAT, I don't need (or want) a software-based firewall active.
Changed Audio-routines in DX10 compared to DX9c: Annoying that I have to fiddle so damn much only to activate two-channel sound. If this is due to OpenAL, the soundcard-drivers for the Azalia-chip or merely a stupid user (namely me) is unknown at this stage.
Quick list of things I'm not sure if I like or not:
Movie-files as desktop backgrounds: A nifty, yet somewhat redundant feature of Vista Ultimate. I don't sit around staring at my desktop all too often, but it IS kind of nifty having Bo Derek climbing out of the surf in a bikini in DVD-quality on my desktop The novelty wears off quick, though.
Windows Sidebar: Nifty piece of software, but since I'm a bit strange like that, I don't really like things that limits applications from using the full width of my desktop (can probably tweak that so that it's not always on top). Haven't found all that many good Gadgets yet, either (a Gadget that lets me know when it's time to turn to Mekka to pray to Muhammed isn't really something I need)
The new Start-menu: Haven't warmed completely to it yet, most likely because it's new/changed compared to the one in XP. Will continue to use it and see how it goes from there.
Things to be tested:
Domain-integration with the Windows Home Server Beta, performance in Poser/Bryce/Painter, benchmarking/stresstesting, setting up synchronization between the computer and my cellphone, and Windows ReadyBoost (using an USB memory-stick as RAM).
Well, then Vista is installed and running smoothly. No issues with the installation at all, except for one device that I don't have drivers for (and have no idea what is
). My comp is, strangely enough, also FASTER than what it was in XP.
So far I've tested Auto Assault, WoW and Red Orchestra on the gaming-side. RO has issues connecting to other LAN-games through Hamachi, quite possibly due to the firewall in Vista (even though it's deactivated for both Private, Local and Public networks). Internet-games are no problem at all, and the game seems to run smoother than before. WoW has slightly higher FPS than when running on XP (5 to 8, even in Darkshore, with all eyecandy turned to max). AA had to be run as Administrator in compatability-mode, but other than that: no problems what so ever.
The only REAL issue I have with Vista, is the fact that Microsoft has done away with pure Directsound and gone over to OpenAL instead. What does this mean? Well, no true Quadrophonic speaker-output from my Realtek Azalia soundchip over two different sets of speakers, for example (running a Logitech Z-210-set as front-speakers, and have a Marantz PM30 amplifier with two Marantz speakers as rear units). I get a strange, flat sound from my rear speakers, and it sounds like the rear speaker-set drives the bass and low tones, while the front does the higher tones. It works, but it's not ideal (especially not in games, even in Red Orchestra, which supports OpenAL).
What remains to be tested? Well, there's always a stack of games (yep, I'm a gamer even at 31, and I'm damn proud of it
). I don't suspect any errors or problems with newer games like HalfLife 2 or Dawn of War:Dark Crusade, but I am curious on how games like IL2 (which uses OpenGL) runs and looks, and not to mention how Lock On:Flaming Cliffs will behave. LO:FC comes bundled with the oft-hated-upon Starforce III (please spare me the comments on how evil SF is, as I've yet to come across a problem with it), so there'll be some poking around on the boards to check before I install it. I know there's a patch from Starforce that needs to be installed, but that's about the limit of my knowledge about it at the moment.
Quick-list of likes:
Windows Mail: (Built-in mailclient). Wonderful piece of software compared to the old Outlook Express-variants. It even has a spamfilter that works straight out of the box, which is more than I can say about Thunderbird (even though that's good as well)
Aero: Yummeh, even IF it is a rip from MacOSX (why not copy it if it works and looks beautiful?). MacOSX still looks better, though, but Aero isn't far behind in my opinion. And it's a far cry from the bubblegum-GUI of XP.
Driver-support: Vista has good support for older units (not TOO old, mind you), but with the change of the sound-system in DX10/Vista, my old Creative Soundblaster Live 5.1 is obsolete and without drivers. But on the plus side: It found my ViMicro Webcam, which is a hideous BITCH in XP, straight away without problems. And now that most hardware-manufacturers has managed to put out drivers, most things work (still wondering what the Communications Device without drivers I have is. Suspect it's either a part of the Marvel Yukon NIC, or possibly something in the Intel ICH8R-chip that's lacking the proper drivers
)
Performance/Stability: Vista, at least on my setup, seems faster than a newly installed XP. No errors, bluescreens or obvious bugs noted, no abnormal resource-usage discovered etc. How this will hold up will be interesting.
Now to the list of the things I DON'T like....
UAC (User Access Control): Annoying as hell, to be honest. True, it's an extra layer of insulation between the user and the core system, but when I want to change something; CHANGE IT! Take your messages and stuff it up your PCI-bushandling-routines, ffs! Luckily it's easy to disable, which was probably the first thing I did after installation.
Triple-layer firewall: While a good piece of software and seemingly good enough to protect the computer from mundane attacks (wouldn't trust it against a determined attacker that knows what he/she/it is doing), but annoying that I had to disable it through the Windows Firewall with Advanced Security-option that hides in the Administrative Tools in the Control Panel (had serious issues in getting a certain piece of software that I run to work
Kept getting these annoying Unable to Connect-messages from the client-part ). True, can always add things to the various exception-lists, but since I run a hardware-based firewall with NAT, I don't need (or want) a software-based firewall active.
Changed Audio-routines in DX10 compared to DX9c: Annoying that I have to fiddle so damn much only to activate two-channel sound. If this is due to OpenAL, the soundcard-drivers for the Azalia-chip or merely a stupid user (namely me) is unknown at this stage.
Quick list of things I'm not sure if I like or not:
Movie-files as desktop backgrounds: A nifty, yet somewhat redundant feature of Vista Ultimate. I don't sit around staring at my desktop all too often, but it IS kind of nifty having Bo Derek climbing out of the surf in a bikini in DVD-quality on my desktop
The novelty wears off quick, though.
Windows Sidebar: Nifty piece of software, but since I'm a bit strange like that, I don't really like things that limits applications from using the full width of my desktop (can probably tweak that so that it's not always on top). Haven't found all that many good Gadgets yet, either (a Gadget that lets me know when it's time to turn to Mekka to pray to Muhammed isn't really something I need
)
The new Start-menu: Haven't warmed completely to it yet, most likely because it's new/changed compared to the one in XP. Will continue to use it and see how it goes from there.
Things to be tested:
Domain-integration with the Windows Home Server Beta, performance in Poser/Bryce/Painter, benchmarking/stresstesting, setting up synchronization between the computer and my cellphone, and Windows ReadyBoost (using an USB memory-stick as RAM).
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Mivat - Posts: 880
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by Shigy » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:06 pm
Nice review mate 
I played with RC1 and got burned rather bad so I'm gonna wait a bit more before I move to Vista. XP does all I need for now. Although the games built in do tempt me to upgrade...I mean how can you resist built in chess and inkball...everytime I see a vista system I end up playing some inkball.
I played with RC1 and got burned rather bad so I'm gonna wait a bit more before I move to Vista. XP does all I need for now. Although the games built in do tempt me to upgrade...I mean how can you resist built in chess and inkball...everytime I see a vista system I end up playing some inkball.
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
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by Innari » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:54 pm
UAC (User Access Control): Annoying as hell, to be honest. True, it's an extra layer of insulation between the user and the core system, but when I want to change something; CHANGE IT! Take your messages and stuff it up your PCI-bushandling-routines, ffs! Luckily it's easy to disable, which was probably the first thing I did after installation.
Yep, this was the first thing I did too. I'll make my own decisions, thanks!
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by Mivat » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:48 pm
Shigy: Yep, the RC1 (and Beta 1 & 2) had some insane issues. The RC2 was a tad better, but an acute lack of drivers hampered it badly. With the RTM-version, and it now being a while since the release, it's starting to look a lot better. One of the main drawbacks was the lack of driver-support from nVidia/ATI for chipsets and graphicscards.
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Mivat - Posts: 880
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by Traanse » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:29 pm
Danyoo wrote:UAC (User Access Control): Annoying as hell, to be honest. True, it's an extra layer of insulation between the user and the core system, but when I want to change something; CHANGE IT! Take your messages and stuff it up your PCI-bushandling-routines, ffs! Luckily it's easy to disable, which was probably the first thing I did after installation.
Yep, this was the first thing I did too. I'll make my own decisions, thanks!
I haven't used Vista, but this sounds like the same thing in Windows XP 64 bit. Brings up a blue screen warning you against touching files? But yeah, easy to disable. >< I'm still waiting on some drivers for 64 bit and I've had this for over a year.
((Okay, maybe about a year.))
If you can read this, Traanse trapped me in her signature. She hasn't fed me in days! Hello?
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by Mivat » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:56 pm
The 64-bit versions of XP is something I never bothered with, mainly because of the insane driver- and software compatability-issues :/ And to be honest, I doubt that Vista's 64-bit versions are any different, although I haven't tried them at all.
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