Ok, Buffy Fans, have at me

[Shikome]

One of my ex-girlfriends was seriously addicted to Buffy and Angel, so had to sit through the unintelligent drivel that is most of the episodes, so yeah, i generally dislike Buffy...
I am genuinely someone didnt pipe up that "Buffy is the best thing ever" or some such comment...

[Firia]

I just could never get past the fact that they wrote Buffy as a whiney, special ed bimbo with serious relational issues and poor impulse control problems. And Sarah Michelle Gellar's nose. WTF is with her nose?

Bust basicly, I get irritated whenever I see weakheaded bimbos cast as heroines and rolemodels. Between that and extraordinarily heavyhanded preachiness of the episodes I watched, I just couldn't figure out what it was that my friends loved so much about it.

Of course Evil Willow was a big plus.

LOL

Ya'know, I think you just said everything I wanted to say. Aside, that is, from the nose. Though I think I know what you mean.

I've never been much from Buffy, and I have seen enough episodes to build an opinion. Whenever they show scenes of buffy planning, talking, "fighting", I always groan cause it blows. But some of the humor that doesn't involve her, actually is kinda funny. I seem to recall these three geeky (GEEKS!) guys that drove around in a van tormenting Buffy from afar. They were hillarious on their own. ^_^

But alot of the girls they pull really irk me. The other day, I was just kind of vegging, and I cought two buffy eps, cause nothing else was on. They had this chick on that was apperently a vamp slayer too, and they tried to pass her off as this 'tude having badass. But I couldn't get past the POOR quality of her script work! It was like someone opened up a book of clichés on tough girls, and pasted her head on it.

Though the part that got me to begin with, was the lousey vamps. The directors and story writers adapted a new angle with vampirism, sure, but these guys were crazy weak. It always looked like touching a pointy stick at the chest of a vampire dusted them. They'd take a hit and roll over. Plus I don't see any effective combat. It's all poorly corriographed (sp) and thrown together.

In a nutshell, it's not for me. It is a teen horror show. If I had a choice of teen shows I had to watch, I would watch buffy over 90210 or Melrose. ^_^

I had a friend who was convinced that it was the best show on television.

thats farscape!

Pff!! Go Stargate!

Y'all can all sit your asses down. ^_^ Battlestar Galactica (new) owns j0.

[Dalkever]

The reason I like to watch Buffy is teh fact that shes an abnormal person trying to fit into a normal world. I can relate to that in more ways than one. A lot of people probably can but I can more than most people I think.

[Tarryk]

the series that has my OMGWTF vote is Jos Weddon's "Firefly" god thats an incredible series. DAMN.

The disease is spreading! OMG UNITE!

I'll be in my bunk.

[Mummu]

SG, B5, BSG, all nice and stuff I like to watch, but its so average...
farscape on the other is SO over the top there is nothign that can beat it!


ps.
if you just got the impression I m a total farscape fan and its not possible to discuss with me over it, you have never been SO frelling right!

[Tarryk]

SG, B5, BSG, all nice and stuff I like to watch, but its so average...
farscape on the other is SO over the top there is nothign that can beat it!

Obviously SOMEone has to disagree with you, so I'll go ahead and be the first.

IMNSHO, Firefly chews Farscape up into pulp and spits it upon the ground.

[Zephem]

I'm with Mummu.

Farscape pwns all your science fiction shows. Nothing is as awesome or unique as Farscape.

[FoxyJama]

I'm watching Farscape now, and I'm on the last dvds of the first season. I have to say, I think it's cute, and sometimes funny, and I like it, but I can't bring myself to say it's a groundbreaking or jawdropping sci-fi series. The original "V", that was groundbreaking. The Twilight Zone, that was groundbreaking. I'm going to have to say that my opinion on this one goes with Tarryk. I think that Firefly was a much more entertaining and well rounded show than Farscape was. In case that opinion changes as I get farther into the series, I'll let you know. I'm not above changing my mind!

[Mummu]

firefly... wasnt that those 5-6 episodes of that sci-fi western mix?
Was an interresting idea, reminded me of star ranger and galaxy rangers, just more grown up. the universe seemed well shaped, but it was cancelled after 1 season, farscape made it to 4 of 5 ( I m still pissed that they canceled the last season, but they made it up with the movie! )
I havent fullydecided yet if I liked firefly, mainly I havent decided if I like the western part or not...

and foxy, I ll wait till you see when they start to realy blow up things
/me looks pitiyful at oddys orbital laser, newb.

some things about farscape i have to admit, though, in the first 3 or 4 episodes you can notice, if oyu look closly that the actors are not fully comfortable in there roles, and some of the dialougues are a lil cheap, not all though. But it gets so better, i m missin gthe words, even the german ones.

to all that dont know farscape I suggest you try it out.


_Edit_
"V" ? I dont know that one, where can I get infos?
twilight zone, wasnt that the one with a collection of short stories (1 story per episode) yeah that was great too, loved it.

_edit_
oh wait you mean that old stuff? never seen it, didnt run here so far afaik.
thank to the almighty google, I was talking of the outher limits.

[Zephem]

One of the things that I loved about Farscape is that if you started in the second and third seasons, where a lot of the action and storyline picks up, you would be wondering, WTF?

When I watched Star Trek, each episode seemed to be enclosed by itself. You could watch and enjoy it, and not have very many situations where you were wondering what people were talking about in referencing older episodes. This is enjoyable, but it doesn't feel realistic. There would constantly be references to things in the real world, and characters would change and develop as the seasons passed.

I think the only person that really changed there was Data, everyone else it was hairstyle or belly pudgeness.

I didn't watch firefly. I've heard that it's good. I've also heard that it's really crappy. I don't really care, to be honest. The fact that it only lasted a single season makes me worry about the real quality of the show and whether people are only into it because of the novelty of certan genres that are meshed together and the hotness of some of the actresses.

I love Babylon 5 as well. That show was an awesome, epic science fiction show. Eventually I am going to collect all of the episodes and things on DVD, when I have more money and a girlfriend to watch through them all with.

Farscape, though, has stuck as a favorite of mine. It has the awesomeness of Jim Hensen's puppets, some pretty cool acting, and some nifty villains and ideas. I was saddened that the show eventually was canceled (but then again, why shouldn't it have been? Sci-Fi channel basicly rejected the show and did very little advertising of it. Everything was a big deal about Stargate, which isn't very entertaining to me), but there should be plenty more to see from that universe in the future. Through movies, mini-series, and such, it will live on, just like your beloved Firefly.

[Tarryk]

Z, I would have thought you'd know better, but I really have to open a can of worms on that post.

I didn't watch firefly. I've heard that it's good. I've also heard that it's really crappy. I don't really care, to be honest. The fact that it only lasted a single season makes me worry about the real quality of the show and whether people are only into it because of the novelty of certan genres that are meshed together and the hotness of some of the actresses.

Dude WHAT?! I'm practically falling out of my chair stunned that you'd even type that load of ... whew...okay...enhancing calm. Okay no, I'm not calm. Dude that was complete anal secretion right there. Okay no, sorry, I'm calm.

It's just that...dude, you haven't even seen it and you're doing this little quasi-judgement on it based on it's running time and what ignorant little quips you have on it? Babylon 5 got cancelled too. That must mean it started to royally suck and the still-fans only like the last season because it had hot chicks with klingon-looking foreheads in it. Farscape must have been royal crap too, because it had muppets. Hey, if muppets are your thing man. (see how completely idiotic that sounds?)

I'm not even going to defend Firefly's specific genre traits from that load of crap uninformed opinion.

Secondly, It's FOX. They only cancel good shows, and continue airing complete crap. It's the way they work, everyone knows this. They're idiots. But you wouldn't know about that, what with Sci-Fi channel being so great with their--oh wait. Yeah.

Thirdly, they aired the entire season out of order so no-one understood. Guess why: It's the kind of story you just spent your entire leadup explaining your love for: It's not self-contained per episode. It's a continual story, and was aired out of order by the mightily stupid FOX network, so no-one understood what was going on and they stopped watching. But of course only those who would take a few minutes to check on it instead of pass judgement based on ignorance-levels of limited knowledge would know this.

I'll concede that you probably wouldn't like Firefly, because looking through the shows that meet your taste it seems you have the exact opposite taste in Sci-Fi as I do. (I couldn't stand Babylon 5 or Farscape and loved Star Trek and Stargate)

To be honest, I wouldn't mind at all if you proclaimed that Firefly was a stinking pile of feces and the worst show ever made, I'd simply disagree, end of discussion. (although I'd admittedly be curious how that could be possible for any scifi fan)

But try watching it before you make assumptions about it's quality, especially when you obviously base that assumption on your obviously uninformed and downright insulting opinion of why people like me must like it. THAT just grates at me. So glad to know that you consider my taste in science fiction is based purely on passe genre meshing and sexual deviance (two things that I might add that are the only two things I can find as selling points for Farscape).

[Zephem]

I stand by what I said.

Take a look at it from someone who never watched Firefly but has had to deal with the filth of the majority of science fiction television and movies that has been created throughout the years. Firefly, from the outset and outside, looks like how I described it. Another television show aimed at those that buy into Nike and various other merchandizing behemoths, and like their boobs, with attitude.

I like to open cans of worms. Then fry them up, much like a certain principal.

So under further inspection, I can see that there is a continuous story. Let's see, where did it start? Something about the US and China joining forces (highly unlikely) and a bunch of stuff happens, and whoosh we're in the future where we have a band of mercenaries that are like family and we follow their adventures.

Wait, I remember a mercenary family that existed before that was done by Joss Whedon. Wait, what was it called again. Oh yes! Ever seen Alien Resurrection? That movie was pretty horrible compared to the previous 3 (I still thought it was alright though). Guess what, they had a crew that seems very familiar to your crew of the Serenity. In fact, considering Firefly doesn't have any alien races, and the aliens in Alien Resurrection weren't commonly known for all mankind, it'd be safe to assume that the crew could possibly be very similar.

The western theme is probably what's going to do it to me the most. That definately doesn't seem attractive. Spaghetti westerns, yucky. Makes me want to call myself the Duke.

Don't diss the muppets man. The muppets are awesome. Most science fiction creatures are some sort of puppet or guy in a suit. Jim Hensen's company has a notoriety of creating memorable characters that have personality. They are more than a guy's hand with a sock on it. They are a guy's hand with a sock on it that sounds constipated and has little eyes drawn on them. That's totally awesome.

Hold on a second, Tarryk. Wait just a minute. Fox has good television shows? Oh, and go ahead and diss the sci-fi channel. After they got rid of Farscape, I basicly stopped watching television. I missed Firefly because I became thoroughly disgusted with everything that's on TV, including Whedon's projects at the time.

Honestly, I like the early episodes of Stargate: SG1. I loved the movie as well. It got old and cheesey after a while, though. (BTW, I think it was the intro episode, it had boobs and everything, I was so like 'OMG uncovered boobs on TV?)

I also like Joss Whedon's theatrical projects. Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie was pretty awesome at the time. Titan AE? I got that on my DVD rack man, I bet it's a little warped because it's been in the DVD player so much in the past. I'm sure the Serenity movie will kick butt. Alien Resurrection was entertaining for me too. Give him an hour and a half to two hour movie and he can write a pretty good script. I'm not too fond of what he created for his television shows in the past, though, and it makes me feel like this Firefly won't be my cup of tea either.

Part of why the Fox Network also canceled the show is because they were expecting Buffy in space. What they got was something different. I agree, the cancelation, after doing my own research (and not reading your post because of it's worm content) I realize that the pilot episode (which introduced the characters and became essential to the rest of the episodes) was never shown until the end of the series being aired, and the episodes were shown out of order. Plus, Fox kept kicking it back or off so they could play baseball games instead. Obviously poor management by the executives in a project that they were standing behind.

BTW, I'm not a fan of Star Trek. I was basicly saying that in real life, the story would progress and characters would develop. I didn't feel that coming from those television shows.

So Tarryk, in the quote you made of me, I mentioned basicly two types of reasons people like the show. The novelty of the different genres meshed together, and the hotness of the chicks boobs and stuff. Are you saying that there's a deeper level to your liking of the boobs? Hmm, does it go beyond their aerodynamic proportions, or perhaps the way they refuse to jiggle even during the most extreme fighting and action sequences.

Don't take things personal dude. But if you or anyone else does...

\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Vallikat]

Secondly, It's FOX. They only cancel good shows, and continue airing complete crap.

Hey, hey, they haven't canceled '24', yet. Which surprises me. There may be things about it which bother me, i.e., miraculously finding just the right needle in just the right haystack in the final moment and the fact that it's WAY overacted by most of its cast. But otherwise, its a quality program, especially by Fox standards. What gets me week in and week out is that it is preceeded by 'Nanny 911' which has to be one of the worst peices of crap ever made for TV. The contrast between the 2 shows is simply stunning.

As to the scifi debate, I never liked Babylon 5, liked Stargate but not enough to stop watching whatever it was I was watching in the same time slot when it came out, never saw Farscape or Firefly, liked 'V' (am a sucker for a good creep factor and that show was riddled with creep factor), and loved Star Trek through TNG, after that I hated it.

Back on the Buffy-esque shows. I watched Angel and thought it was ok, better than Buffy, I could stomach a whole episode. I don't think anyone has mentioned Charmed but I liked that better than either Buffy or Angel. However, only on a pure guilty entertainment level, not because I thought it was a quality show. I couldn't even manage to watch Buffy for the guilty entertainment level. But then perhaps I should've tried Foxy's suggestion and watched it in order from the beginning. But it's just not that important to me.

Ok, my 2 cents. I'm out for the weekend. Have a great holiday, my fellow Americans!

[Boinky]

Somewhat Off-Topic, but was mentioned & just gotta clear something up.

Babylon 5 while technically being dropped by Paramount after 4 season then got picked up by Turner for the final 5th season. It was always going to be the final season. JMS wrote it as a story arc with a beginning, middle and ending. Of course they then spun off the series Crusade which did pretty badly and was cancelled.

But other than said technicality, Babylon 5 wasn't cancelled, it came to an end as every story must besides Neverending Story I & II and was there a III?

[Zephem]

There was a 3, and 4 I think, along with animated stuff.

Number 3 had Jack Black as a punk gang member, who was also the main arch enemy and Sabastion's nemesis.

[Tarryk]

Take a look at it from someone who never watched Firefly but has had to deal with the filth of the majority of science fiction television and movies that has been created throughout the years.

So reason #1 for Z's reason to not watch firefly: Other shows suck.

Firefly, from the outset and outside, looks like how I described it. Another television show aimed at those that buy into Nike and various other merchandizing behemoths, and like their boobs, with attitude.

One word: Farscape.

So under further inspection, I can see that there is a continuous story. Let's see, where did it start? Something about the US and China joining forces (highly unlikely)

So now you're basing opinion on the realistic possibilities of a sci fi show happening? One word: Farscape.

Wait, I remember a mercenary family that existed before that was done by Joss Whedon. Wait, what was it called again. Oh yes! Ever seen Alien Resurrection?

Yes, incredibly similar in concept of the crew's interaction. Yeah, that must make the show instantaneously suck because it's comparible to another. Of course, by that logic, every single sci fi ever written after Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a ripoff piece of crap.

The western theme is probably what's going to do it to me the most. That definately doesn't seem attractive. Spaghetti westerns, yucky. Makes me want to call myself the Duke.

Yep, spoken like someone who's never even seen a clip of the show.

Don't diss the muppets man. The muppets are awesome.

So you can dis a show you've NEVER seen before, and outright insult the people who watch it, based on completely unfounded assumptions and ignorant observations? And I can't say the muppets don't do justice to sci fi? In any case, I didn't dis the muppets. I used the complete dumbassery of dissing the muppets to show you a mirror example of what you're doing with Firefly. Spaghetti Westerns? Jeezus.

Most science fiction creatures are some sort of puppet or guy in a suit. Jim Hensen's company has a notoriety of creating memorable characters that have personality.

So does Joss Whedon. What's your point.

They are more than a guy's hand with a sock on it.

I know, because I watch and enjoy Jim Henson & co's work. And Inara's character is more than a pair of boobs. But alas, you WOULDN'T know. But you seem pretty comfy in your ignorantly etched-in-stone judgement.

Hold on a second, Tarryk. Wait just a minute. Fox has good television shows? Oh, and go ahead and diss the sci-fi channel.

I didn't. You did. I responded to it.

So Tarryk, in the quote you made of me, I mentioned basicly two types of reasons people like the show. The novelty of the different genres meshed together, and the hotness of the chicks boobs and stuff. Are you saying that there's a deeper level to your liking of the boobs? Hmm, does it go beyond their aerodynamic proportions, or perhaps the way they refuse to jiggle even during the most extreme fighting and action sequences.

Fine, hurl ignorant personal attacks. At least I have the decency to read a book before I review it.

Don't take things personal dude. But if you or anyone else does...

\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

What is that, exactly? Hip net-speak? "I'll just point to my sig, that way I can make insulting judgements about other people and look cool doing it." So now you're the Howard Stern of internet forums, out to throw unfounded personal attacks at people's convictions just 'because I can', then tell them not to take it personal? Guess what it is about that that doesn't make you look cool, bro.

Yes that was me being all mad at you Z. GRR! Yes, I'll get over it. Don't you have a show to do?

[Ashval]

Dudes...it's a TV show. It's not worth getting this worked up over. Now, go have a coke and a smile and stfu.

Or, get insanely drunk and start singing on the air like I did last night. It's liberating. Probably not great for listener ratings, though.

[Tarryk]

Dudes...it's a TV show. It's not worth getting this worked up over.

Good thing that's not what I got worked up over, then, isn't it?

Yes, facial destruction is planned.

[Ashval]

Yes, facial destruction is planned.

Good...I think you singing on the air will go over a lot better.

[Otori]

I am going to go out on a limb and semi-hijack, but I guess not really because we are talking about semi-scifi shows.

In fact, this is more than a limb, I'm likely to get lambasted.

/whisper Did anybody watch LOST this season on ABC? Now I know what you are thinking!! I wasn't going to have anything to do with it, I didn't even watch the first episode (did later though), but Katie talked me into it. And it ended up pretty much blowing me away. Now it was created by Abrams of Alias fame (which I don't watch). I initially thought it would be pretty formulatic.....but it couldn't be any more exact opposite of that.

Probably one of the most well constructed mysterys ever brought to television. 43 people survive a plane crash in route from Australia to Los Angeles. You are slowly fed flashbacks from about 12 main characters and how they ended up in Australia and headed back to the USA. They expect to be rescued soon, but slowly the island starts revealing very strange mysterys: The only signal they can pick up on thier radio is a looping distress signal from a French woman 16 years old, there is a polar bear on the island (a tropical island!).....it's just too much to explain. It really starts twisting into a series of connections from each of the characters backstories.

If you like your science fiction served up in an erie, mysterious, complicated, finely crafted storytelling way, I suggest you ignore the hype and get your hands on the first season DVD when it comes out. I don't think ABC had the right marketing approach when they advertised this and it turned alot of people off who might have otherwised loved it.

*ducks*