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Something has really been bothering me since I turned 26.. it has always dawned in my mind on wtf will happen. For some reason.. at 26.. I'm pondering this thought like it meant my life.. Before I would think of it... then move on and think nothing of it... now that I think about it.. what's going to happen? Where's my proof that I have a chance at another life?

Obviously my question is... What happens when we die..?

Is there an afterlife? or is it the fact that NOTHING happens, it's just a big pitch black of nothingness we see for a split second then nothing is left? Obviously if nothing is left we won't know the difference.. but it's the fact that I'm thinking right now.. I've spent 26 years on this earth.. without one answer.. and what if something happens to me tomorrow.. next week, next year.. what if I die..? Do we have proof that there is an after life? No we have a book that says there is... Have we had proof from the afterlife, Heaven, God, that there is an afterlife?... no... just so called "miracles" and "strange happenings".. that point to something after we die. I don't mean to sound so morbid but I couldn't think of a better crew I'd really want to discuss my dilmemma with.

Before.. I thought.. hey we die.. we move on.. either our souls are casted into someone new born and start a new life.. or.. 2nd.. we're judged and either cast into Heaven or Hell.

Now that I've turned another year older.. back in January.. I've started to think a lot deeper.. and the deeper I think.. the honest to God.. the more scary and terrifying it gets. I get to the point where I break out into sweat and wonder "wtf was I thinking?? wtf is going to happen???"

Here's my train of thought.. how it works.. I set and think.. Ok.. here we are.. Who created us?.. God?... ok.. if that's your biblical answer.. what was God looking at when no one was here? Was it just a white room with nothing in it?... then the clencher.. I think back farther and I freak out.. who the hell created God?!?! To every end.. there is a beginning.. and I freak out everytime I try to ponder this now..

I sometimes wonder.. was the bible something made up by some drunks that were bored one night and thought they'd elaborated and exagerate on things they saw and hope that people would continue to contribute and build up what they like to call a "religion" ?

I hate to think that.. maybe one day I will meet God.. and I will be judged on my faith.. but I'm terrified because at this point.. I almost have no faith.. I'm a lil aggrivated.. we're expected to have this "faith" that there is an afterlife.. there is a Heaven or Hell.. that we will one day meet again with our loved ones... WHERE'S THE PROOF? How can we base a faith on something we've never even seen? I mean if God were to stick his head out one day of the clouds and say.. "Hey.. I'm real... believe in me!" I'd be head over heels in faith.. but has something like that happened? No.. has anything in my life happened to prove to me there is a God? Maybe..but also maybe it was a coincidence..?

People often like to put the blame on "acts of God" when it's something miraculous.. I don't.. I tend to think it was a coincidence..

Example.. You hear.. "A man got in his car and headed towards an intersection.. he JUST missed another car... 10 seconds earlier and he would have been dead. God must have been watching over him.. "... Ok.. so what about the OTHER guy.. who DIDN'T wait the 10 seconds?.. Was God not watching over him? Even though hypethetically he was an avid church-goer but still got the short end of the stick? Where was God at that point.. Where was God at any bad time on Earth?

That's what makes me lose faith in such a quick instance that I worry about.. that IF there is an afterlife.. am I going to be punished because I didn't have enough FACTS to base my faith on?

I see people with defects.. can't walk.. can't talk straight.. can't hear.. can't see.. can't do any of those sometimes.. and it makes me SOOO FREAKING mad... I mean to the point of furious.. I wonder.. WTF did THEY do to deserve something like that?.. WTF was you so pissed off about that they deserved that?... Maybe God wasn't pissed off.. maybe this is showing the point that there ISN'T a God.. if so.. why would that God let something like that consume such an innocent individual? I see adults come into my store that are mentally handicapped.. I almost weep in tears for their pain.. I wonder.. wtf DID I do.. to deserve to be "normal".. wtf did THEY do... to deserve THAT?.. and WHY can't I ... OR SOMEONE AT ALL cure them? I mean if God were existant and were to give me the powers.. HELL YES... I WOULD CURE THE WORLD.... but it's the fact.. nothing happens.. people suffer.. but God never comes to the rescue?...

Don't get me wrong.. I'm for the better side of Good.. however it may be represented.. I'm just having trouble believing there is a God.. OR an afterlife.. given the facts of things that have happened in the history of man.. Innocent people have given their lives.. they have been murdered.. raped.. mugged.. killed... in the name of the so called "Devil".. Well.. God created everything so sayeth the bible?... so Why couldn't HE/SHE stop the evil that has consumed our earth....

Then I think back even FURTHER... relating to the bible saying.. that Adam and Eve were the first humans on earth.. I set and wonder.. What kind of God would PUNISH the whole world over 1... ONE PERSON'S mistake?... Sounds almost like a lame ass school system.. "ok.. one person threw a paper wad.. now you've all got saturday school...".. ... referring back... "ok.. well u ate the damn apple.. now you're all screwed!" That just doesn't seem like a fair God to me.

The point I'm getting to in my mindless preaching is there are SO many questions left unanswered.. that it KILLS me to even try to put my FAITH into something I have NO proof of but yet a little small book called "The Bible" Who's to say the whole damn thing wasn't made up?

I wonder.. When a pet dies.. a mammal dies.. a dog.. a cat.. HELL.. an INSECT dies.. we're told that everything has a soul.. is there insect heaven? Per say some people.. insects don't have enough brains to meet our comprehension.. so why should they even be thought about.. Man kills an insect.. no big deal.. man kills man.. it's on like donkey kong..

Woman aborts a baby.. it's hell for that girl.. a small mammall aborts a birth due to primal nature and it's unwillingness to survive.. oh it's ok then.. who draws this line between human and others?

I went to the zoo this past week.. I'm sure most of you heard.. I saw a gorilla.. it freaked me out.. how normal the gorilla acted as humans.. they ate.. they looked around.. and even seemed to set and ponder as if we do.. so do they have an afterlife? or are they just expendable creatures?

I know I'm rambling on and on.. I just wanted to get this off my chest and don't think I could go another day unless I did..

My fright is.. I'm scared there isn't an afterlife.. I'm scare this is it.. one life.. one chance.. that's it..

I'm almost frightened to the point that I'd be willing to set myself dead center in a haunted house.. or SOMETHING.. JUST TO SEE if I could get proof of a spriit world.. that WE DO MOVE ON.. after we die.. that there IS something else..

I'm scared shitless people.. I hope you see my point.. I set and think about this fact at least 3 times a day and almost break into tears that possibly.. there may not be a thing after I die.. that I may just see blackness and poof.. that's it.. like I said before.. obviously I wouldn't be around/concious to even care if that were the case.. its the fact that I'm living day by day thinking.. there isn't something waiting for me..

IF THERE IS?.. .... WHERE'S THE PROOF....? I set and wonder.. some people say "i'll say a prayer for them..." and if that person doesn't make it.. its the reason of "well.. it was just their time to go..".. if they "pray" and that person makes it its... "I'm thankful you all prayed hard enough to help him through this.." ... does that mean the people before him didn't pray hard enough and that's why that guy got the shaft? I set sometimes and think praying won't do shit.. if it's your time.. it's your time.. but something inside of me tells me to pray when something is wrong.. .like when my dad had a small heart attack?.. yeah I was setting there praying.. praying saying "if there IS a God, I ask that you help him through this so that he stays with me as long as possible..."

It's like.. I don't believe.. but when I'm in dire straits.. yeah I'll believe.. I feel terrible doing that.. thinking.. maybe one day I WILL meet God.... and God will punish me for only calling upon him/her when I needed him/her.. almost like a convenience... but the other .. majority half of me says.. it doesn't matter what I say.. what's gonna happen is GOING.. to happen.

Maybe you all can share your thoughts on my randon mumbles.. My music and family is my first priority in life.. but recently.. this has almost superceeded anything that is in my life...

share your thoughts.. call me crazy... someone.. say something.. I'm going insane... Maybe your thoughts will help out..

Switchfront wrote:My fright is.. I'm scared there isn't an afterlife.. I'm scare this is it.. one life.. one chance.. that's it...

I'm sorry mate, but this is my belief anyway. I don't believe in God, I don't believe in an afterlife. I don't even believe in a spiritual side of life. I have two factors in life. Chaos and coinsidence!
We were given life by chance. A freak chain of events lead to this. Sure, we can ask ourselves "Why us!?" but the answer is rather simple... It had to be someone, and no matter who it was, they'd be asking why them. They weren't chosen, they were just there.

Switchfront wrote:It's like.. I don't believe.. but when I'm in dire straits.. yeah I'll believe.

When you have nothing else, every option is worth a shot.
Faith and religion is what people turn to for a solid standpoint in their existence. Have you ever noticed how religion, faith, and what not for some odd reason tells us exactly what we'd like to hear? That someone is watching us, that there's a reason for everything, and that it's all going to be ok? No one is abbandonned, and no one is left to rot. Even if you die, someone is watching over you.
It's because it's made by man. We invented it to soothe our minds. To give us the answers to things we didn't understand. It makes unbarable situations barable, and hard times more easy. When someone dies prematurely, or is killed, we say that God has taken them, that he has a plan. We're not saying this for their sake, we're saying this to calm ourselves. To convince ourselves that if there really is a god, he wouldn't let such a thing happen, so he must have a plan.

I for one intend to make what I can of life. For I have no belief in an afterlife. I do not believe I have a spiritual soul per say, and I do not think I will be reborn. When I die... I'm dead.

I admire poeple who can believe. I am unable to have that romantic view of things and instead resort to humour. It's my bastion of escape when the world get's too serious. We all have something we do, something we turn to. It's human nature to seek security. When none is found, then comfort at least. When even this is not an option, we are truly alone.






Tm

Hello all. I guess it's my turn to reply. Please do not think of me a saint or one that is o' so holy and right that i'm casting stones. Truth be known i'm not like that anymore which is sad i know.. but here is my reply. I reply to this because i feel if i do not i shall be judged by the main fact i said nothing.

I believe with all my heart there is a God. How could there not be? Life in general is a paradox. With good you must have evil, just like with life you must have death. I have been in church for a large portion of my life and i feel god is real. Faith is based on a belief that oneself wishes to trust in. If it is true great, if it is not..what was wasted? Many religions believe you do this u go to hell, you do that u go to hell, but do this u go to heaven. Who are we to say if you do this your going to hell and there is nothing u can do about it? What faith is this? Faith that we know more than God? Hmph. People are so damn...bah i won't go off on that. But Switchfront I believe there is with no doubt a God, but as i said i'm not here to change your mind or anyone's because i believe you can preach to someone day in and day out and they are still gonna do and believe what they are gonna believe. So thats is just my 2-cents. I do believe in God with all my heart and love him with all as well.[/b]

OK well, I am an Atheist as aparently Oddy is. And I don't really want to get into this matter too much, so.....

I won't - not gonna say any of it. Sorry

In my opinion, the existance of a God or Gods is irrelevant.

I am agnostic, which means I feel that there is a possibility of God existing, but I haven't seen enough to justify those thoughts. I don't ponder on it much, though. I did a few years ago, but I basicly went back to the old thought process.

Regardless if there is a God or not, you are given only so much time on this Earth. What you do with your time is your choice, and you are the only one accountable for those choices. God isn't to blame, others aren't to blame, only you.

What should you do with the time? Make the best of it! Some think this means party hard, get high, and live care-free. I feel that the only way I can live my life is to have some meaning. To do something that impacts others, and helps them live their lives better.

The only real way to live on after death is to remain in the thoughts and memories of others. Many people across time have achieved this through their musical works, their writing talents, or their thoughts, ideas, and contributions towards mankind. If anyone wants an 'afterlife' that seems to be the only way to achieve it in my opinion, regardless of God's existance.

Oh, and I almost forgot. I keep a little phrase in my signature that encompasses my feelings on the matter. Memento mori. It's latin for 'remember you are dying.'

I believe that the world was created. Not necessarily in every little detail, but when I look around on a beautiful day and see how perfectly things work together, I can't accept that the world we live in came as a result after improbable event after improbable event after improbable event. THAT'S where I believe most faith originates, from an unwillingness to attribute the beauty of the world to random chance.

As far as good people experiencing bad things goes, I don't think that God or the Devil or whatever really has anything to do with it. I'm a scientific person. My belief in a creator amounts to a 'first principles' effect, where God actually created the rules for the universe, a framework for reality. I don't think that God actually has a heck of a lot to do with the 'day to day details' of life... who gets born with a deformity, delaying a guy 15 seconds so he misses a potentially fatal car accident... those types of things, to my way of thinking, are just the varagries of life. If god DID interfere in the day to day activities of life, we sure as heck would have noticed it by now.

Just because I believe the world was created doesn't mean that I believe that can or should mind every single little thing that happens. It's like a guy with an aquarium. He bought the tank, the rocks, the plants, the filter, the water, the fish, and put them all together.... he's the creator of the aquarium, but he has no control over whether one of the fish gets a disease and dies or one of the fish goes crazy and starts attacking the others. It happens, and he may be sad about it for a while, but life goes on. So, I believe, it goes with our world and our creator.

The Bible is a bunch of stories written down and collected over a period of over 400 years that try to teach us how to act. Try to infuse them with any greater meaning, like saying they're divinely inspired and no word of it can be untruth... well, that way madness lies. People who say there was an actual flood that covered the entire world because a book written about religion 2500 years ago says it did REALLY SCARE ME. Take the Bible for what it is... a book that tries to teach us how to live through either direct instruction (the various letters in the new testament) or allegory and fables (the parables of Jesus and basically all the old testament).

Ultimately, though, it comes down to living our life. If you come to the conclusion that there is a god and an afterlife, then you should live every day trying to be the best person you can be, because you never know when your time is up and you want to be sure to be ready for your Judgement Day. If you come to the conclusion that there ISN'T a god or an afterlife, well, it really is the same deal. You need to live every moment to its fullest because you never know when it's going to end, and there's no coming back when you're done.

Believing in God and the afterlife is an act of faith... faith is believing in something without any proof. If God poked his head out and said "Hey everyone! Look at me!!" believing in him would no longer be an act of faith... it would be a simple acknowledgement of fact. It isn't particularly virtuous to believe that grass is green, so neither would it be virtuous to believe that God exists given direct proof that yes, God does exist. That is, if you believe that faith in God's existance has any bearing over whether you get into heaven. That is, if you believe in an afterlife. I try not to worry about faith a whole lot. I just try to be the best person I can be every day, and try to enjoy myself while doing it. Some days I'm more successful than others

I dont know. And because I dont know, I came up with a solution. A sort of means to an end.

I live every day to its fullest, doing what I enjoy and doing what I can for other people. It makes me happy, so I do it. At the end, if there is a god and heaven, cool dat, and I keep on doin what I do. If there is no afterlife, well then bugger, but I did what made me happy, so I will be happy.

I can relate to most of what you're feeling, Switchy. I grew up in a Christian environment, one aspect of it that involved 12 years of pretty interesting private school.

I learned quite a bit about 'faith' during those years. And while, at one time, I could count myself as part of that faith, I don't now. I won't go into why, as that's not something that's terribly important.

What is important is your concern over what's real. I think most of us are familiar with that pondering. It's purely natural, as well... for we are human beings, the great thinkers of this world. To not challenge systems, at least logically, would be against our nature... and perhaps, on some level, the pull of that challenge is what makes "faith" so hard. What makes it such an important aspect of "god". Faith can be defined as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof". When it comes to god, that definition is very applicable. However, many men of the "faith" will tell you that proof of god is all around us. That we are proof of god. For a long time, I believed that without a doubt.

But the human nature of us all made me question that. To the point of being frightened about which path to take. Because if you pick the wrong one... aren't you "screwed"? That's what I was told growing up. The 'narrow path' is hard to follow. They're right. For whatever reason, doesn't matter, they're right.

I could ramble on and on about the dual-sidedness of the issue of faith. About how I see the "Biblical Passages" as a rough guide to life. Old fashioned, albeit, but. I'm a very objective person, which can make it hard to blindly follow either path.
Which one should you follow is up to you, Switchy. I understand your fear, your worry.. "What if I die and see god? And all this time I could have just had faith...", "What if I die and there is no god? There is no continuation of the spirit?". It makes you feel like no matter what you choose, you could be making the wrong decision.

I guess that's where soul-searching comes in. Even after having seen both sides of the fence, and bad and good examples of each, I can only tell you that you're going to have to deliberate this with yourself. Inform yourself, read!, expose yourself to the ways of the world, talk to others you trust and care about.(which you've done here, too! Keep it up hehe)

When you can say that you're "happy" about your feelings on the issue, and when you can say that you truly feel "at peace" with the way you live your life... I think it doesn't matter what happens when you die. Preparing for a future that may not exist is one thing, living your life and being personally glad about how you lived your life is another.

I can relate, Switchfront, and the funny part is that when I first started reading your post, I already had a good idea as to what the question would be before I got to it. I think it was closer to 24 for me, but 26 is really when it started to take shape as an actual dilemma that I would dwell on for too long.

And sometimes I still do.

All I know is what I know, and all I can believe is what might actually be.

So, granted, I don't believe in shining lights, heaven's gate, or bad people going to hell. Nothing of the sort, in fact.

Fact: You are the combination of your memories, thoughts, reactions, and emotions. Some people equate "soul" in the list, but there is no tangible soul outside of the previous four parts, so it's my reasoning that the "soul" is the combination of those parts.

Fact: Human thought occurs when synapses fire in the brain. Neurological and chemical reactions create emotional states and store memories. All of this seems natural to the human being -- and it is -- but very few people can grasp that it is the biological makeup of the brain that MAKES thought, memory, reaction, and emotion happen.

Fact: When the body dies, the brain stops firing. Your thoughts, your memory, your reactions, and your emotions all no longer exist. They do not leave the body in a shimmering pool of existential light, the synapses simply stopped firing

Now let's hold off a moment before leaping to the conclusion that I've just set myself up as a tried-and-tested Nihilist. I AM a nihilist, but ONLY on a mundane scale. On the whole, everything works out into the fundamental cycle that is the universe, where every single occurance, thought, emotion, and reaction all help pave the way to the final moment at the end of the road.

You see, when you are asleep at night, you have probably noticed that your sense of time diminishes significantly. Many people have to check the clock when they wake up in the morning (without an alarm that is) because they don't have a grasp on how time elapsed, but they FEEL that it did.

Then there's being put under, by a doctor. You may have noticed that you REALLY have no sense of time. When you wake, you're aware that time must have passed by how your body feels, but you have no idea how much time.

Then there's a coma, when the brain is permanently in a near-shut-down state. When a person wakes from that, they have no idea that any significant amount of time may have past (aside from muscle atrophy). The brain simply has no way of knowing the difference between a couple hours and a couple years in this state.

Then...there's dead. When the brain is dead, there is no more time. And now the reason I said all this: A lot of people have this notion of "instantaneous existentialism", where the soul just suddenly leaves the body and goes to whatever second world and lives on the same timeline that we do, just in a different "dimension".

I disagree to a hardy point. I say that dead is dead, but the passage of time according to the potential consciousness is EQUALLY as dead, and therefore the transgression of all the elements that make up the person into the basic elements that make up the universe may take a few million years by OUR reckoning, the dead HAVE no concept of this passage of time.

Therefore, quite literally, when you die -- from your perspective -- you are put right back into the "source", the primordial mixture that makes the universe work and life occur. And, objectively, it might as well be an instantaneous transition...but for those still living, you're just dead and all that remains for a good long time is nothing more than memory.

Judging the mood of the forums this week, I'm not going to touch this one with Chef's ten foot pole. Sorry Switchy, but even if I did, you would not be comforted and your mind would still not be at ease.

i didn't read all of it but it sounds like your having a mid-mid life crisis lol

SaintBootay wrote:Judging the mood of the forums this week, I'm not going to touch this one with Chef's ten foot pole. Sorry Switchy, but even if I did, you would not be comforted and your mind would still not be at ease.

Sorry about the riling up & the muck-racking and the hubbub Bootay

And yeah, some good thoughts for you to ponder anyway Switchy. And even though I may hold some different views I know the feeling. In a way I started the journey that is basically having these thoughts back in high school - found myself wondering about things like the essence of reality. But I got over that for the most part eventually.

Ok, well first off if there is a heaven it is most assuredly filled with muffins. :p

Ok, more seriously, I believe in the existance of the soul as being a source of energy. The brain doesn't fire and the heart doesn't beat without it. But I don't believe in it in concrete and literal terms. I don't believe that you go on to heaven as a physical or spirtual or other dimension. I more or less believe in something closer to "the force". So, though I said that I think that our soul is our source of energy, I don't think its like a battery that just dies when its time to die. I think your body dictates when it doesn't need the energy any more. Either by accident or illness or old age or whatever, when its time to kick, you kick. But your energy source doesn't die. It stays. It maybe becomes someone else's energy source or it maybe joins that passing gust of wind that will ultimately become a tornado or something. But that part that was your essence, your energy, your soul, goes on. For how long, I don't know. Maybe forever. But forever is a very tough concept to grasp.

Ok, lets see what else? I believe that this energy source is kicked off in the moment of conception. In fact I believe that its the reaction of the union of sperm and egg that creates the energy. But does that mean I do or don't believe in God? Well... yes. I don't think all of this, any of this, anything that we know, is possible without something larger than ourselves. But I don't believe in an old man with a beard sitting on a high throne on a piller of clouds.

Now, I'm in my 30's. I started asking many of these same questions when I was in my teens. It was at that point that I completed 12 years of catholic education. Once I was out of the grips of the catholic school system I had a bit of an awakening and started wondering why I believed what I believe. Honestly, I would have given you completely different answers 5 or 10 years ago. For that matter I might have given you slightly different answers even 1 year ago. Its a constant quest and I think that's good.

Having said that, I hope you don't find your answers, Switch. Yes, that's right, I said *don't*. Sometimes its better not to have the answers. But keep right on asking the questions. You'll be a better human for having taken the journey and asked the questions. Good luck.

ValliKat wrote:Having said that, I hope you don't find your answers, Switch. Yes, that's right, I said *don't*. Sometimes its better not to have the answers. But keep right on asking the questions. You'll be a better human for having taken the journey and asked the questions. Good luck.

There's a lot of wisdom in that statement...

Ignorance is bliss in this case, I guess.