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Sorry Tarryk, but I have to spout this arguement now.

Firefly and the movie Serenity were great, but I would say a much better SciFi TV series, in fact maybe the best of all time, is Babylon 5.

Doesn't mean Firefly, or Star Trek etc aren't great... just not as great as Babylon 5 in the Sci Fi genre.

Joss Whedon has some great chops, but he made his chops doing Buffy.

J Michael Straczinszki (or however you spell his name) made his chops doing Captain Planet - Captain Planet - pure Sci Fi

Well anyway, one of the best episodes is Season 4 "Face of the4 Enemy"
There is a song played when Captain Sheridan is captured, does anyone know the song or who sings it?

Cannot be certain without watching the episode, but pretty much all the music used in babylon 5 was written specifically for the show by Christopher Franke

The song was actually an original creation by Chris Franke just for that scene.

I did some research since I wanted the song also.

I'm finally getting into Babylon 5, after years of thinking either "what the hell is going on?" or "the CGI looks really awful." I will say that, after going through the first season, it shows a surprising amount of thoughtfulness, particularly as compared to other television sci-fi. The episode about an alien species refusing a medical treatment for their child because it violated their religious beliefs stood out particularly in that respect.

But, I still don't think I'd trade my Firefly/Serenity DVDs for Babylon 5 ones.

Yup, B5 ftw... just recently finished re-watching the entire thing...

Incl Season 5 and Legend of the Rangers... for those who haven't watched it, agree with da Boink and having only made it to AO/Conan & B5 panels at both D-cons I've been at, the cast I've seen come across as being some of the most silly people ever

I wouldn't say better than FireFly, but definatly on the top end of the Sci-Fi list.

Joss Whedon has some great chops, but he made his chops doing Buffy.

Interesting theory.

Still, it seems you spent longer trying to relay that Firefly isn't as good, rather than spending the time trying to relay that B5 is better. Shift focus a bit and explain why you like B5, not why Firefly doesn't match up to you.

I've watched both, and to each their own, Firefly still destroys all imo. But I love all scifi, and I couldn't follow B5 no matter how hard I tried. I'm all ears to reviews.

Speaking of Firefly, Tk, a couple of my co-workers in Georgia were all giddy with excitement when they found out I loved Firefly. I was happy. Apparently they don't have enough geeks around or something

Sorry Tarryk - well some of it has to do with volume.

Firefly plus Serenity equals 1 season of shows and 1 movie.

Babylon 5 is 5 seasons of shows plus a bunch of other (admitadely) TV movies also (admitadely) kinda crappy TV movies (haven't seen the new one straight to DVD)

hmm did I say their movies were only TV?

Serenity had the great thing that it showed here on the Marcus Threatre Ultrascreen )look it up) and that big screen never gets anything but movies that show on 5 other screens - till Serenity came around and it showed on the Ultrascreen singly that week, cause it didn't warrant 6 screens.

Still was history

Joss Whedon is a great storyteller, hands down!

But J Michael Straczinsczki (never get spelling right) is a master at writing great Sci Fi!

Buffy is not Sci Fi. Babylong 5 & Firefly/Serenity are Sci Fi, at least at heart.

I would say Babylon 5 is more pure Sci Fi, and Firefly/Serenity is Drama with a Sci Fi flavor.

Both are great , but Babylon 5 is more polished as a whole package.

Another point.

Babylon 5 was always going to be a 5 season series. I agree they did do the Excalibur spinoff after seasn 5, yes, but Babylon 5 was a complete story determined before the series was ever greenlighted.

Firefly not only I guess did not have a predestined duration, but it also only lasted 1 season.

No great offense, but B5 got it's job done! 5 seasons done!

Joss Whedon despite his creativity and power from Buffy could only get 1 season from his Sci Fi show.

Sci Fi says - J.M.S. - 1 Joss Whedon - 0

Buffy the Vampire impaler is fantasy

Babylon 5 is pure Sci Fi

babylon 5 was a five year story, told in 4 seasons, with a fifth one hastilly added on..

If you watch it and pay attention you'll notice this, that season four tries to cram two years worth of story into a year, and season five, is just lost.

As for the biggest difference, I'd say you have to take budget considerations too. with B5 eating a much larger budget.

Overall though, don't compare the two..

Babylon 5 is to Firefly, what Star Trek TNG/DS9/Voyager is to Enterprise

If they did cram 2 seasons of stories into Babylon 5 season 4 it's only cause they already knew that they were being cancelled. Babylon 5 was always a 5 year story. If they had got shut down in 4 seasons the story would never have been complete.

Imagine such classics as Hamlet or Romeo & Juliet with the last 1/5 missing

Imagine Start Trek movies without Star TRek V! err....

If he crammed more into season 4 of Bab 5 it was only to ensure completeness.

Besides you are changing the topic.

Babylon 5 is better than Firefly I'm sorry. In a purely Sci Fi show way.

Both are great, I would never deny.

But saying Firefly is a better Sci Fi show than Babylon 5 is like saying Han Solo really did shoot first!

I gotta point out - I think J.M.S. didn't just make a better Sci Fi TV series than Joss Whedon did - I think he made the best TV Sci Fi Series of all time!

I agree Star Trek started the ball rolling, but nothing topped Babylon 5 yet.

I don't think it's fair to say Firefly is worse because it was never finished. There might have been several seasons lined up for viewing, either written down or still in Joss Whedon's head. The ending they left on was as good as it was probably going to get without trying to cram so much information into a few episodes the viewer would get lost. We all know Fox is notorious for canceling it's best shows (I still hate them for canceling Arrested Development).

The argument is still mute because it's all opinion. In my opinion I think Star Trek trumps them both (Original and TNG). The universe for all of them is rich in content but I could throw something in about how Gene Rodenberry is better because in the Original series he was able to create parables for what people were dealing with at the time.

It's really all a matter of opinion.

I dont get it.. you are saying B5 is better than Serenity because it is "more SciFi", and went 5 seasons...
This is your basis for comparison?

Basd on this.. Doctor Who must be close to king then!

Dude.. Give us some specifics for your argument, or is it just your over all opinion based on whatever....

My opinions...
DrWho is the greatest - Why? - because I grew up with it!
Star Trek is another great show I grew up with and I love it, but I get lost in all the spin off series...
B5 - Watched a few episodes, borrowed a bunch of DvD's, It was okay, not my fave.
Farscape - hated it
Firefly - loved it!! That cast just clicked.. regardless of Whedons story telling, the excellent sets, the absence (thankgods) of bumpy headed aliens.. That cast as an ensemble blew anything I have ever seen away!
Battlestar Galactica (and I am talking the original) Who cant like all that plastic chrome

Back to the B5 vs Firefly

In your words.. B5 had the greenlight for a complete story from the get go right?

Fox just wanted another series out of Whedon, when he delivered Firefly... they didn't get it! Watch the extra features on the dvd's and see just how hard they all worked to keep that show alive!!

The Coup de Gras of course is the fact that a cancelled series was made into a major motion picture.. that by rights should never happen! But firefly was that damned good! In Whedon's words describing serenity: "We were cancelled. This Movie should not exist" but it does - due to refusal to let it lay and the doggedness of the fan base

Boinky wrote:But J Michael Straczinsczki (never get spelling right)

*cough* Straczynski *cough*

Having never seen Babylon 5 I can't give an opinion on whether its better or worse.
Nevertheless I can say (as well as being pedantic (see above)) that even if it is more Sci-Fi, Firefly was self described (By Whedon) as a Western-Sci-Fi...So therefore it's never going to be more Sci-fi then something that is solely Sci-fi.

Its like saying Star Wars is better as its a more pure Sci-Fi then E.T; when the Sci-Fi aspects of E.T (although vital) are not the key aspect of the story.

Though in my opinion something that successfully spans several genres, and is innovative in the doing so (I.E I can't think to my knowledge a previous western/Sci-Fi...any?) has got to p!w!n!

~::Edit::~ Why even have this discussion, when no Sci-Fi could ever compare with the king: Starship Troopers!

The most horrifying part of Firefly was what a friend of mine told me about its original airing. It was set up for failure from the very start. Where we're at, they piloted it at an obscure time, then began changing the schedule WEEKLY so that it was never on at the same time or on the same day. To make matters worse, they were airing the episodes out of order. This completely obliterated potential for a fan base before it ever began. To think that it has caught on so well after the poor handling (at least in the region of the US my friend had attempted to watch it in) is an absolute miracle.

As for Babylon 5? To me, it just seemed like a sci-fi soap opera that ran a couple of years too long. I was bored to tears.

In the end, it's a matter of taste.

tbh i could never actually sit down and watch Babylon 5 however something about firefly draws you in i think for one its malcom i just love his acting. One of the reasons is probably its totally different from all the other sci fi series's around

I am not trying to say one is better than the other. We all have our personal tastes after all.

Let me put it this way.

Babylon 5 is more accurate pure Sci Fi

Firefly/Serenity is a great dramatic show with the flavor of Sci Fi added

For myself, part of why I may like Bab 5 more is 2 reasons. I love Sci Fi and it is much more true Sci Fi than Firefly. Plus it gave me 5 seasons of shows to watch, so a much longer story.

Firefly was 1 season and a great Joss Whedon story flavored with some Sci Fi seasoning.

My favorite comics I'm reading right now are X-Men comics written by Joss Whedon. He writes great stuff, but he's rarely ever done Sci Fi.

And yes I know JMS has written many non-scifi comics as well. Rising Stars was great as well.

Boinky wrote:I am not trying to say one is better than the other.

*points Boinky to the title of the thread he started*

hmmm...

Boinky wrote:I am not trying to say one is better than the other. We all have our personal tastes after all.

Yes you are actually in the thread title

Boinky wrote:Babylon 5 is more accurate pure Sci Fi

For myself, part of why I may like Bab 5 more is 2 reasons. I love Sci Fi and it is much more true Sci Fi than Firefly.

You keep saying this over and over.. How? How is it "more accurate" or "more true" ?

I find Firefly far closer to being a true future reality than anything I ever saw in B5..

Heh, points to the revised title

revisionist history - if George Lucas can practice it, so can I darnit!

What would you say is a better pure Sci Fi example - I, Robot the book by Isaac Asimov or I, Robot the Will Smith movie?

If you can compare those two, then we can compare Babylon 5 and Firefly/Serenity

And it's like two people on a see-saw - one will be heavier and make the other one rise in the air and then beg to be let down.