A disturbing trend in todays culture

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Postby Tarryk » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:36 pm

Agreed that everything so far pretty much hit an impass. Good discussion, indeed. :)

On just two points:

Wait, first you say a person of age 15 can’t have the capability to make such a solid decision in their life, then saying you are not telling anyone what they are capable of? I agree, the individual mental evolution has the capacity to cause change in one’s life path, but to require the change I disagree with. Another time we will continue to look at this train of thought differently.

As Vallikat said, it's a question of developement of the brain, and for a 15-year-old to have a fully developed brain is as likely as a 6-year-old going through puberty. Could happen, but HIGHLY unlikely. And the difference in "capable" is more short-term vs. long-term. The young mind is capable of making a decision. The young mind is not capable of making a decision and enforcing a stay on that decision for the remainder of life unless at least one of two situations apply: 1) The decision is based on trauma and leads to a comfort zone that does not require effort beyond the initial decision (see: imancipation), or 2) The decision is based on genetic influence (see: parentally influenced career path). But yes, the young mind has the chance to make a decision and there is a chance that the person will stick to that goal throughout life, but again this is HIGHLY unlikely and not at all based on the resolve of the mind, but rather based on the very slim chance that the mind's evolution will not involve a major change in life paths. That's short-term vs long-term capability, two different concepts used here, with a vast majority of human examples to confirm it's general truth.

I believe you and I have different perceptions and understandings of what the meaning of the word rich is. This is where in my opinion you fall into the same trap you warn others not to do by following the media’s standard for what being rich means. But, as you and I both have proven, we all have opinions and none of them are less valid then the next. Only difference is how we came to those opinions and how they shape our lives.

I don't like to think that I fall into the trap so much as assume that anyone else may have. Although I do quite often refer to myself as a child of the media. I, like most others, spent a good majority of my childhood influenced by contemporary media and commercialism. When I shunned that completely and went about creating my own version of filtered contemporary media (GSP), I realized that redefining a term to fit my own path when it's generally accepted meaning is totally different is not an easy path to follow. Therefore: rich means money value unless pointed out otherwise in context.

Pure semantics, I know, but isn't that what debates always filter down to? LOL very good discussion, Mire.
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Postby Darth Bootay » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:00 pm

RULE #1
Don't argue with children under age 19. Even those who have an abnormal level of maturity and intelligence. Every word you say in arguement is, to them, further proof that they are right and you are wrong.

RULE #2
Children, because they do not possess sufficient life experience to disabuse their notions, do not yet know that everything they know is wrong and are eternally baffled when life contradicts them.

RULE #3
Adults have an inexplicable tendency to forget rules 1 and 2 and are convinced that words and force of will can convince a child that they are wrong when the entire world's contradicition to the child's convictions is not sufficient.

Summary:
"You can try to teach a pig to sing all you like, but in reality all you accomplish is to make yourself hoarse and annoy the pig."

In twenty years, long after everyone here has forgotten the arguement, the kids here will have come to the conclusions you are trying to convince them of entirely on their own and will have convinced themselves that it's a brilliant and shocking new revelation.

Mire: Enjoy knowing it all for as long as you can, because your days of omnipotence are numbered.
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya."

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Postby Mire » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:41 pm

SaintBootay wrote:Mire: Enjoy knowing it all for as long as you can, because your days of omnipotence are numbered.


What? If I have lead anyone to the belief that I felt I knew it all, I am certainly not putting across my views clear enough. Infact I think I stated several times I refuse to state the things I know are fact or are set in stone. I totally agree upon all your rules you stated.


As far as semantics go, yes, pretty much every debat always boils down to semantics. I can't and won't dispute the medical facts of a brain development of a child at age 15, but I will always point to the scientific community who constantly states to this day they still do not understand fully the human brain and what it is capable of at any age.
Why give flowers to anyone? They wilt, they die the dry out.

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Postby Tarryk » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:05 pm

Mire wrote:What? If I have lead anyone to the belief that I felt I knew it all, I am certainly not putting across my views clear enough. Infact I think I stated several times I refuse to state the things I know are fact or are set in stone. I totally agree upon all your rules you stated.

Worry not, Mire. Miss Bootay has been known to jump the gun on assumption of people's viewpoints on occasion. I'm sure she means no offense. :)
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Postby Mire » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:25 pm

Tarryk wrote:
Mire wrote:What? If I have lead anyone to the belief that I felt I knew it all, I am certainly not putting across my views clear enough. Infact I think I stated several times I refuse to state the things I know are fact or are set in stone. I totally agree upon all your rules you stated.

Worry not, Mire. Miss Bootay has been known to jump the gun on assumption of people's viewpoints on occasion. I'm sure she means no offense. :)


No offense taken :P I just know there are times my thoughts are not really put across very well over this medium :)
Why give flowers to anyone? They wilt, they die the dry out.

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Postby Darth Bootay » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:41 am

Mire wrote:
Tarryk wrote:
Mire wrote:What? If I have lead anyone to the belief that I felt I knew it all, I am certainly not putting across my views clear enough. Infact I think I stated several times I refuse to state the things I know are fact or are set in stone. I totally agree upon all your rules you stated.

Worry not, Mire. Miss Bootay has been known to jump the gun on assumption of people's viewpoints on occasion. I'm sure she means no offense. :)


No offense taken :P I just know there are times my thoughts are not really put across very well over this medium :)


Jumping the gun, as it's called, is a long-beloved hobby. Some who know me less than well might argue that it is a way of life. Offense is not only permitted, but usually expected, though heartily discouraged. Agreement is neither mandadory nor encouraged unless otherwise indicated.

Words, lacking tone and expression are misleading.

Nothing is set in stone unless it is in our own perceptions, and even this is subject to change over time and experience.
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya."

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Postby Mire » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:52 am

SaintBootay wrote:Jumping the gun, as it's called, is a long-beloved hobby. Some who know me less than well might argue that it is a way of life. Offense is not only permitted, but usually expected, though heartily discouraged. Agreement is neither mandadory nor encouraged unless otherwise indicated.

Words, lacking tone and expression are misleading.

Nothing is set in stone unless it is in our own perceptions, and even this is subject to change over time and experience.


Wise words :) and always on course...

Cheers!
Why give flowers to anyone? They wilt, they die the dry out.

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Postby Tastyvixen » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:11 am

If your like me it comes down to TO MANY CHOICES. There are just so many interesting jobs out there that its SO hard to deside what you want to do. blah

I had it nerrowed down to 2 jobs when I was 6 and if there was any way I would still jump all over them.

1. A woodworker.....there is no formal training for this anywhere that I have found. You have to find someone willing to take you in as an aprentice. blah I love to create things of beauty with my hands and wood is an amazing outlet.

2. Wildlife Conservationist.....very hard to earn much of a paycheck doing this. haha


So, at 28 I really still have no idea what I want to do. haha :roll:
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Postby Tacz » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:34 am

SaintBootay wrote:RULE #1
Don't argue with children under age 19. Even those who have an abnormal level of maturity and intelligence. Every word you say in arguement is, to them, further proof that they are right and you are wrong.

RULE #2
Children, because they do not possess sufficient life experience to disabuse their notions, do not yet know that everything they know is wrong and are eternally baffled when life contradicts them.


I strongly disagree with you!

But I shan't pursue it any farther :wink:
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Postby Darth Bootay » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:08 am

See, that's the thing, though. That's WHY people can't figure out what they want to do till their thirties anymore. We are presented with a STAGGERING array of choices, then to make it more difficult, the most exciting and/or most noble of them requiring a huge time and financial investment in return for not only low odds of actually being able to LAND those jobs but a promise of a poor paycheck if you do (promising a lifetime of debt).

Our society churns us out of schools better suited to propagandizing than to teaching with the huge pressure to immediately enter the workforce and an equal amount of pressure (in the middle to upper class schools) to immediately enroll in college without giving a child any real indication of what is available in the job fields to work towards. Those who enroll in vocational/technical schools are stigmatized with the double brand of "blue collar" and "not too bright", which further muddies the waters for kids (as if you'd WANT a moron fixing your car or the electrical systems in your home!).

College isn't much better, as the student is left to muddle through on his own, given no sense of purpose other than attaining ANY degree with the unspoken (and often very real) threat that he might not even be able to work retail without one.

How IS a child to make a lifetime commitment to a career decision in such a society? This isn't the 19th century when bright and talented children apprenticed to trademasters and craftsmen to learn and eventually work under them in that occuption for life. We no longer inherit our parents' occupations. Education garauntees nothing and experience is valued even less than proof of education.

Undeveloped brain structure aside, how could anyone expect a 15 year old to know what he's going to do for a living when he doesn't even know what the real world is? Oh, I'm sure some of them THINK they know what they're going to be doing for the rest of their lives... I did too. But reality intervened. So I'm not a world famous ballerina. (The things you don't know about your friends LOL)

As little as I like children, I have a great deal of sorrow for them. They are not allowed to be children when they are children, not given a PRACTICAL education, are oversheltered from everything, spoiled and denied discipline they sorely need to become rational, independant adults and dumped unceremoniously into the adult world with these pressures to somehow miraculously grow up and find a clue and a job somewhere in their early twenties. No wonder there are so many jobless basement dwellers in the world.
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya."

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Postby Darth Bootay » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:09 am

Tacz wrote:
SaintBootay wrote:RULE #1
Don't argue with children under age 19. Even those who have an abnormal level of maturity and intelligence. Every word you say in arguement is, to them, further proof that they are right and you are wrong.

RULE #2
Children, because they do not possess sufficient life experience to disabuse their notions, do not yet know that everything they know is wrong and are eternally baffled when life contradicts them.


I strongly disagree with you!

But I shan't pursue it any farther :wink:


LOL! Go Tacz go!
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya."

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