Roleplaying games (Pen and paper)

[Kriegshammer]

So... I'm starting a new group and I was wondering what game system to play. Most of my group will be newbies and they're pretty much set on a fantasy setting, so no Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Vampire and the like.

I ruled out:
- AD&D (I don't like the restrictive class rules and I don't have the source books needed to open it up, plus it seems pretty old to me compared to D&D 3.5)
- D&D because the 4.0 rules seem pretty much like 20 years backwards and the 3.5 books aren't published any more (at least not at the moment and not in German), also I hate the (A)D&D rules for spellcasters - memorizing spells and then you can only cast 2-3 times or so a day, bah. I like Magic points or a system like Shadowrun uses where spells "damage" you and you have to resist with Willpower
- All the rule-heavy RPG's like Rolemaster and Rifts because that would be too much for the players
- (Old) Earthdawn because while I like the setting a lot it's pretty dice-heavy and confusing for beginners
- Warhammer, which is not light on rules, also I'm playing this in another group (Hooray for my Dwarven Rat Catcher )

As I'm a Veteran of PnP RPG I'm not sure any more which systems appeal to beginners. The setting I can "easily" write myself, it's just the rule set I'm unsure about. Here are some I consider good:
- Savage Worlds: fast to learn and to play, but not so accurate. Uses D4 to D12 as stats for attributes and skills. (It's a generic RPG like GURPS, without a setting)
- Old World of Darkness: easy overview with only D10's, I never really liked the success counting when you got better and could use 10D10
- Call of Cthulhu: I like very gradiual progression of skills you get with the D% system, but is it confusing to beginners?
- Arcane Codex: character creation is a little tedious, but then it's always 2D10 + skill/attribute to roll, which is pretty easy in my book. Comes with a nice dark fantasy setting, too. That's a bonus

Maybe you have other ideas? My newbie days are long past but I remember it took me a while to get the AD&D rules with D20 and D% for thief skills - I never really understood the rules back then. I want my group to fully understand the rules early - because I intend to be a player again, one day

Long story short: Any suggestions for easy-to-learm rule sets which don't feel like they're too simplified?

[Ashval]

I really love Vampire: The Dark Ages. I didn't care for Requiem at all, and our group often uses the older material. It's a pretty easy rule set to learn, and it combines the elements of a typical fantasy setting with...vampires! Win!

It's been too long since I played it for me to remember if the rule sets fit your preferences in respect to magic and the like (actually, magic is kinda rare now that I think about it), but Midnight is an interesting setting. It's fantasy themed, but takes place in a world where evil has already won. It really challenges your group in more of a "survival mode" manner. Allies are few and enemies are many. It might be a bit harsh for beginners, but the rules were pretty easy d20 rules (similar to 3.5) from what I recall. It might not be the best fit, but I wanted to mention it in case you hadn't heard of it and wanted to check it out sometime. It's definitely a dark fantasy setting.

If you and your friends are a fan of the series, the Game of Thrones RPG is pretty well-done and not terribly complicated. Again, it's a d20 system with some changes from the standard D&D system (defense rolls, shock value on attacks, etc.). It's also a setting light on magic though.

I'm not sure what else I could suggest that would be of the fantasy setting. I'll post later if I think of something else.

[Kriegshammer]

Thanks, Ash! I'll look into Midnight for sure!

I've been playing Vampire for years (Dark Ages mostly, some Masquerade) and I love it! Still, it's not the fantasy setting my folks would like. As far as I know them they want some dwarves and elves and dungeons and... you know, classic fantasy
I had a look into the new World of Darkness and never touched one of those books again. It just sucks compared to the old WoD in my opinion. Some good ideas, granted, but all in all not my cup of tea.

[Kriegshammer]

And it's settled. With regard to simplicity of the die rolls we decided to go for Arcane Codex. It's a pretty rare game I think since it was never translated to English. Plus there's not much around like sourcebooks and stuff because they're slow at work and concentrating on PDFs for their 2nd edition.
1st edition ftw

Oh and my other group will be Warhammer Fantasy RPG. We'll give the 3rd edition a try, but I don't think it's better than 2nd. 3rd is more like a table top game and you get cards and markers to make up your character - I need a character sheet dammit! Plus, I want to play my dwarven rat catcher again

Anyone got experience yet with the 3rd edition of Warhammer FRPG, maybe?